Semen Kung, Chi Kung and Crown Center Orgasms, Topic split from Lobby

I'm really starting to think that very few people have experienced CCOs. I asked the same question on another (non-tao related) forum. 6,000 views later, no one has replied in the affirmative. I was, and still am, hoping that this forum would be a more fertile pool to find another fish like me (in order to compare notes). CCOs really are an astonishing experience.

Having experience with CCOs is not a prerequisite to saying hello and/or welcoming me to the forum .

This post has been edited by sean: Jan 29 2007, 09:30 PM

lol - sorry we've been neglecting the lobby area... welcome!

To be honest many of the bums have a slight disdain for Chia's sexual energy techniques - most see it as dangerous and incomplete... I think it's great to have someone with such a wealth of experience in this... I myself have not experienced a crown orgasm, and have not been doing sexual practices anyway (except minimising ejaculation).

I have, however tasted the nectar you're talking about - although this isn't because of bringing the jing up from my testicles, or any orgasm practice (I rather keep the reason a mystery for now lol)... the taste is kind of sweet-aromatic, almost coconuty...

I think it would be a great idea to start a thread in the main forum with a full story about your practices and what you've gleaned from the many years of cultivating sexual energy... (have you really not ejaculated since 18?)

oh also check out alchemicaltaoism.com it's a collection of very usefull knowledge from the Healing Tao community...

Thanks!

How dissapointing. To be honest, my experience has been that those who object to Chia are individuals who are subject to disdain and dissappointment at the difficulty of the path that he presents. Until I'm shown reason to think otherwise, I have no reason to have any problem with Chia (and indeed, much gratitude!). Please consider this an invitation to show me some reason (yes, I understand that cranial chi storage must be handled carefully) that SKF should not be pursued. Understand that, in my opinion, the absence of experience of CCOs significantly undermines the veracity of one's objections. Also understand that I want to contribute positively to the stream of Love that we all drink from. So if declining my invitation suits one and Love best, then that's okeedokee with me.

I don't believe you. There's no suspension of my belief that is great enough to accomodate your knowledge of the golden nectar in the absence of a CCO. Please consider this an invitation to no longer keep the reason for this knowledge to yourself.

Good idea, will do (with respect to ejaculation, uh, no, I've ejaculated many times since I was 18...why did you think that I hadn't?).

Yep, good stuff. Thanks.

This post has been edited by xenolith: Nov 25 2006, 10:59 AM

Well the people that tend to disagree with Chia's approach to sexual energy cultivation are generally the more experienced ones - I myself have no concrete oppinion, as sexual energy cultivation is not my thing at this time. Michael Winn certainly disagrees with Chia on many points (one being that the emotions/organs/elements have to be dealt with and all the major channels thoroughly cleared before sexual cultivation begins)... there are also problems with moving aroused sexual energy which can result in many complications. And energy stagnation is a major problem unless you're very carefull and meticulous. Have a look at the alchemical toaism page for more info... Oh and also it seems quite a few of the veteran sexual energy cultivators have become (how can I put this) very 'unstable'...



lol - well I dont wish to make you believe me... I dont really want to lead people on a wild goose chase - I'll just say 'external alchemy did it'... or more like a combination of nutrients (maca, and minerals), the 'external alchemy agent' and activating the pineal and other glands in the brain did it... I don't practice this any longer, I've gone back to simpler things in my practices.



Well Chia stresses that ejaculation should be avoided at all costs - so I presumed that you followed his advice.

Welcome Xeno. Could you describe a CCO for me? I'm very curious to hear a rich description of this phenomenon from someone who has experienced it. Also, how often do you experience CCO's and can you bring them on at will?

Thanks,
Sean

Sure. With apologies for the delay in replying, here's the description that I've provided elsewhere:

>>>Xenolith, all of this stuff sounds incredibly interesting, thanks very much for keeping the thread going and responding to everyone's questions.

It is tremendously interesting. And an incredibly useful and powerful tool for nourishing one's body and mind. You're welcome and thanks for saying so.

>>>I was just wondering whether you regard CCO's as by far the best 'type' of orgasm a man can have - because unless it is absolutely magnificent it does not seem worth the huge effort to learn the art, although I am certainly interested in reading and learning more.

Personally, I don't have an orgasm hierarchy. But I do like variety. The closest analogy with which I can describe CCOs to someone who hasn't experienced them, which, BTW, I'm very sorry to say, is everyone I've ever met (including mrs. x), either in person or electronically, is an LSD trip. Now, if a person hasn't experienced an acid trip, well, then I'm pretty well limited in my ability to communicate the experience again. But, yes, CCOs are a lot like peaking on an acid trip. Very intense. There aren't any hallucinations, but one does 'lose track' of one's body. ALL of one's consciousness is focused on the experience taking place within their own consciousness, to the point where awareness of one's body is lost. With one exception. One is aware of the electrical dynamo, the energy coursing through their microcosmic orbit. One feels that energy circulating within one's body, but the body per se, is not sensed. It's the experience taking place at the crown that dominates one's consciousness during a CCO. I've stated it elsewhere in this thread, but I'll do so again, the most overwhelming 'thought' that one has during a CCO is that they are a pure energy being, a self contained dynamo, in an infinite energy field. The vastness of the energy field is simultaneously unbelievably beautiful and unbelievably humbling. To be quite honest, the feeling is not unlike what I imagine it must be like for a fly on a bug zapper. Well, without the being electrocuted part. But you do feel like you're 'frying' in the LSD sense. It's an extremely lonely feeling, not necessarily in a bad way, but one senses very deeply how unique, defined and isolated their dynamo is and how small it is in the overall energy field. Personally, I become overwhelmed with a desire to liberate some of the energy in my dynamo. To do so requires another energy being. IOW, a person. In particular, a person of opposite electrical charge. IOW, a woman. So that energies may be exchanged in a complementary way, simultaneously releasing energy and receiving energy. Sorry, my gay friends. (Single cultivation) CCOs are still possible, but not dual cultivation CCOs by my understanding, which is to say, in accordance with traditional Taosit SKF practice. As difficult and time consuming as it was for me to learn how to achieve CCOs, I estimate dual cultivation CCOs to be several orders of magnitude harder.

With regard to CCOs, I don't pursue them often because they are very intense. Much as like I wouldn't want to pursue peaking on an acid trip on a regular basis. But I do them several times a year. For the primary purpose of reaquainting myself with my own energy. And experiencing the infinite energy field. It reinforces my sense of self. And encourages my desire and love for my wife. She knows when I've had a 'nectar shower'.

>>>I have recently started investigating ways to better enjoy my sexuality. I have pretty much mastered 'holding back' ejaculation using a strong kegel while having an orgasm, but I gather that this is just a baby step from regular ejaculatory orgasms, compared to CCO's. I have also experimented with the 'key sound' multiple orgasm (from jack johnson's site) - and in just a few months I have had some great success with this. Have you experienced key sound orgasms (they seem pretty amazing to me) and if so how do they compare to CCO's?

I don't know anything about them.

>>>Also, are there any other 'types' of orgasm of which you are aware, or is this list comprehensive:
Ejaculatory
Non-ejaculatory 'PC squeeze'
Prostate (using aneros)
Key sound (jack johnson)
CCO

I consider your "Non-ejaculatory 'PC squeeze'" and "Prostate (using aneros)" to be the same. I can't say, not knowing anything about them, but knowing what I do, if "Key sound" orgasms are non-ejaculatory, then I would expect them to equivalent to prostate orgasms as well.

>>>I would assume there would be some other types of 'tantric' orgasms?

I really don't know. But based on what I've learned so far, I don't think there are. All I know is traditional Taoist SKF and the type of orgasm possible with it, CCOs. Others people, such as XXXX, have indicated that orgasms are possible at other locations, in her case, she claims heart chakra orgasms. With respect to traditional Taoist SKF, such are not described. I strongly suspect that those making claims of orgasms in locations other than the crown center (chakra) are describing what I've come to refer to as "leaking chi" orgasms. Which, for lack of a better description, I think can be thought of as energy releases from the microcosmic orbit at locations lower than the crown. Indeed, in accordance with traditional Taoist SKF, organ nourishing is achieved this way. But is not considered orgasmic.

I hope you find my comments helpful.
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Sean, no, in my experience they can't be experienced at will, but read my sig...things other than what we believe to be...may be! (my sig provides the HOW of keeping one's mind open for those who haven't recognized it's message as such). There's an initial conditioning period required (based on my experience) of ~10 years, followed by individual experience conditioning periods of ~2-3 months. Maybe I'll describe the method that I employ during the individual experience conditioning periods at some point, but to do so is really a waste of my time in the context of an audience of initially unconditioned persons. And I've become conditioned(!) based on my having provided the information to another initally unconditioned audience to not do so again. Those that read it didn't believe me. Wasn't fun. Spouted stuff about SKF being dangerous or incomplete. What can I say...that's not been my experience. I wonder if those that object to SKF are those that haven't experienced it.

xeno

This post has been edited by xenolith: Dec 2 2006, 10:00 PM

Welcome, Xenolith.

Sean, can you move the lower part of this thread to the main board?

Thanks Smile.

A little further info:

The experience of a CCO is foremost one of awareness, in epiphionic clarity, of one's dynamo and of its place in the infinite energy field that is Life. The male dynamo spins counterclockwise and turns within itself as chi is delivered through penis tugs. Its like pulling oneself up a rope...with each pull, a pulse of energy is delivered to the dynamo, which churns to a higher voltage. As one sends additional chi to the crown, increasing the energy of one's dynamo, one becomes increasingly aware of the vastness of the energy field (of Life) within which one's own energy engine exists. It's humbling to the point of tears. Given the understanding of the greatness of one's own energy yet the vastness of the energy field within which it exists, one is overwhelmed with feelings of humilty and lonliness. And a desire to share one's energy with another energy being...IOW, a person. A person of opposite electrical polarity in particular. IOW, opposite gender. Connection. That's what a CCO experiencing person wants more than anything. But having tasted the golden nectar they are now different. And we don't like those that are different. And connection becomes more difficult. But some try anyway. I'm trying.

Most important of the observations that CCOs have shown me is that as Love in my Life increases, so does the voltage of my dynamo. Simply put, I'm a Love machine. We all are. Or if you prefer, we're creatures of Love (kudos to Mr. Byrne for his insight). This is based on my experience, but so is this:

I've got a hypothesis for what is taking place neurologically in CCOs. I think that SKF methods facilitate generation of neuro-electric charges within the sympathetic nervous system that, when propogated up the spinal system to the level of the cranium, become short circuited by the vagus nerve (from periniumm to cranium) resulting in the experience of a CCO. Maybe I'll illucidate on this hypothesis here someday (it pertains to the relationship of the governor channel and the vagus nerve). Mostly I'd like to find others who've experienced CCOs in order to compare notes with them. It's astonishing to me that I've not found a single person yet. Freeform, the reason that I don't believe your claim of knowledge of golden nectar is because of my understanding that experience of it is triggered by activation of the vagus nerve. And my understanding of the vagus nerve is that it operates independant of the sympathetic nervous system (and therefore of the gastro-intestinal tract and other glandular organs which would have been operant in the mechanism for golden nectar generation that you cited). I offer you my suspension of belief in this matter should you choose to show me the courtesy and the Love of directing me to a new discovery in this matter.

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Here's an analogical explanation of how to achieve CCOs once the (as far as I can tell) requisite conditioning experience (which took me 10 years) (and which I belive is during which the neurologic (sympathetic system) connections between the perinium and the cranium are made) has been achieved:

It's copied from a post I made elsewhere in which I attempted to explain the incompatibility of the Aneros device with CCOs. Notwithstanding that particularity, I think its a worthwhile description.

Male sexual energy, also known as chi, is a yang substance, having characteristics of heat and volatility. The Aneros device is very good at stirring up chi. A good way to think about it is as a pot of fluid on a stove. This fluid has a very high coefficient of thermal viscosity...when at room temperature it's a very high viscosity fluid, meaning it's very resistant to flow, like molasses; when hot, it's a very low viscosity fluid, meaning it flows readily, like water.

In order to achieve CCOs, one must draw chi from what is referred to as the Sperm Palace up to the crown center. You can think about the Sperm Palace as being the pot of fluid on the stove, chi as the fluid in the pot and the crown center as being your mouth. The mechanism by which chi is drawn from the Sperm Palace to the crown center is by means of one's Microcosmic Orbit. You can think of the Microcosmic Orbit as being a paper mache straw between the pot of fluid on the stove and your mouth.

Now consider that in order for the straw to pass the fluid being drawn through it, the fluid must be at both the right viscosity and right temperature. Not hot enough, and the viscosity will be too high to pull through it through the paper mache straw, too hot and the heat of it will dissolve the paper mache straw. The latter condition is a good analogy for what happens to one's Microcosmic Orbit when using the Aneros device. The heat under the pot gets turned up very quickly, too quickly to be able to control and the paper mache straw, IOW one's Microcosmic Orbit, dissolves. Stimulation with the Aneros device results in what is akin to the pot of fluid boiling over, and the spilling of this fluid feels good. This is a prostate orgasm, or for purposes of this discussion, a leaking chi orgasm. This is why the Aneros device is not conducive to CCOs, the chi it generates gets too hot too fast, making controlling it impossible, which causes the Microcosmic Orbit to 'dissolve' under the shear heat of it. It's like trying to capture and transport lightning in a paper bag...too difficult to do. Based on traditional Taoist teaching and based on my experience, which is consistent with traditional Taoist teaching, I don't think anyone can achieve CCOs with the Aneros device installed. Simply put, it makes achieving them harder. No one would want to make achieving CCOs harder, it aint easy to start with. I'm sure guys that use the device have "mind-blowing" and whatever else descriptions one wants to use, orgasms, but in terms of traditional Taoist teaching and Seminal Kung Fu practice, they aren't having Crown Chakra Orgasms. Of course, I could be wrong about this, but I'm as confident about this as I am about my own existence, death and taxes.

In order to achive CCOs, chi must be controlled, i.e. held at just the right 'temperature' and 'viscosity' in order to keep the 'straw' of the Microcosmic Orbit open. The way to successfully control chi is to allow it to heat up slowly, very slowly. Once it's at the right condition, it can then be moved by means SKF up through the Microcosmic Orbit to the crown center, where, upon sufficient delivery of chi, spontaneously, a CCO will occur. The orgasm can be continued for as long as one can maintain the right condition (temperature and viscosity in our analogy) of their chi. Although viewing porn can be useful to get things starting to heat up, and actually, if one is careful and looks away for periods of time to keep things from heating too quickly (which will cause the MO to breakdown), all the way up until the CCO begins. But really, the SKF practice that one needs to be doing at this time to move chi along the MO will be requiring so much concentration that anything else in the room will effectively be a distraction to what one is trying to achieve. At some point, and certainly no later than once the CCO begins, I find the best thing to do is turn off the monitor/tv. One will want to be concentrating very intently on their SKF practice at this point as the sensations of the CCO are so pleasurable and attention holding that one will not want to be distracted by anything else in order to keep generating and maintaining the right condition of their chi, so that the CCO may continue. Like anything else that is a learned skill, practice makes one better able to do these things with more intuitiveness.
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For those that aren't familiar with the method of CCO cultivation as described by Chia, here it is, typed directly, word for word from the Chia's book (Taoist Secrets of Love-Cultivating Male Sexual Energy).

1. Sit erect on the edge of your chair with your feet flat on the floor about shoulder width apart. Wear loose pants or wear nothing from the waist down, so it can literally all hang out. Do not practice naked in a cold room, or you could lose a lot of chi. With the air circulating around your bottom you’ll naturally become more aware of your “privates”. Allow your attention to center around your scrotum between the two testicles and you might be surprised to discover that it really is cold, or yin, down there. Make sure you feel very relaxed. If you are tense, do some stretching exercises or take a walk first to disperse tension.

2. Inhale slowly and pull the testicles up. Hold for awhile, then exhale slowly and lower testicles. As you inhale, think of the breath going down into the testes and filling them up. At the same time raise the testes with the breath. Gently continue inhaling and exhaling with the testicles until you feel a lot of cold energy in the scrotum. You may do this in a round of 9, then rest and practice again 3-6 sets. Use the mind alone to cause the movement of the testes up and down-don’t flex your penis or anus muscles.

After exercising for a week or two, you may observe the actual rise and fall of the testes with your breathing. This movement confirms that you are breathing properly. At a more proficient level, the lower abdomen will appear to move less: nearly all visible action will be in the scrotal sac itself. Breathe through the nose. The whole body must relax. Allow all tension to flow out of you as if you were in meditation. Use the mind alone to raise and lower your testes. With practice you will learn to identify the cold chi stored in the scrotum area.

3. Guide that “cold” feeling from your scrotum to your perineum by inhaling and pulling up slightly on your testicles. At the same time feel it coolly flow the few inches to the perineum, an action induced by putting your mind at the perineum and holding it there. Inhale and exhale several times at the testes to build up more energy. The retention of the chi at the perineum is very important, for if you release your attention the cold energy will drop down to the scrotum or leak out. It is just like you are using a straw to draw up the fluid. When you are out of breath and pause for a while you need to keep the attention by holding your finger over the straw. If you release it will drop down and you’ll have to start again. Do this for several days or until you get it.

4. Begin to draw the sex energy from the testes up the back channel, as if sipping on a straw. Always start with testicle breathing, inhaling and exhaling till you feel the chi energy is ready. Inhale, draw the “cold” from your testicles to the perineum and then draw it up to the coccyx, the very bottom of your spine, mostly bone, that’s called the hiatus opening of the sacrum.

When you pull the cool chi up to the perineum and then to the sacrum, slightly arch your lower back outward, as if you were standing with your lower back outward, as if you were standing with your back against a wall and flattening against it. Tilt the sacrum downward and hold it down in order to help activate the pump action, which will be further accentuated if you gently tighten the back of your neck and skull bones. Hold the energy at the sacrum for a while, then exhale but hold your attention at the sacrum.

Then let your sacrum and neck relax back to their normal positions, this will help activate the two pumps, sacral and cranium pump. At the same time do the testicle breathing. Bring the energy up to the sacrum again, hold it there till you can feel the sacrum open and the energy gradually move up. You can actually feel the cold energy move up a little at a time. If you’re having trouble feeling this, try rocking your sacrum back and forth and then hold still and observe the effect of this pumping.

There’s an indentation in the sacrum bone and that’s where you draw your testes’ “cold” energy. This particular area is usually a little difficult to work because sperm energy is denser than chi and has to be pumped up. So that’s where that pump comes in. Some people experience pain, or tingling or pins and needles when the “cold” enters the hiatus, so don’t be upset if it happens to you. You can get through the coccyx if you’re having trouble by gently massaging the area with a silk cloth from time to time.

5. If you’ve managed to go up to your coccyx, spend the next week drawing the cold to T-11 in your mid-back (the 11th thoracic vertebra). Do it in the same manner, with an inhale-exhale at the testes and sucking it up your spinal straw to the perineum, sacrum, T-11 (opposite your solar plexus, at the last “floating” rib). Pull up and retain at T-11 till it feels full and continues to open and move up by itself. Again, because sperm energy is denser than chi, you have to accommodate it by flexing that part of your back in and out to straighten it. That loosens it for freer passage of the “cold” energy.

At the T-11 adrenal glands energy center, sitting atop your kidneys. In Taoist practice we regard this as a mini pump, where your arch will create a vacuum to push up the energy higher.

6. Your next stopping place is at your jade pillow. This is at the back of your head, between C-1 and the base of the skull. Do it in the same manner as described by inhale-exhale at the testicle and keep on pumping up the energy up to perineum, sacrum, T-11 and the base of skull. In this area is a place to store the energy for further use.

7. Your next stopping point is Pai-Hui, at the crown of your head. Do it in the same manner only this time fill the straw to the top. Tilt the sacrum to the back in order to straighten the curve out a little bit to help activate the pump action. This gets the lower pumping going. At the same time you tuck in your chin a little and squeeze the back of your skull, it will activate the upper cranial pump. Keep on pulling up to the point dead center on top of the head.

8. When the energy finally goes up into your head, men will have the very distinct feeling that it’s spinning and usually in a clockwise direction, as you look up. If you’re alert you can count 36 revolutions. It should feel good and refreshing; the extra energy should help your creative power and improve your memory. You can think more clearly, and are the beginning stage of controlling your sexual urges or frustrations. This sperm energy is later converted into chi, the original life force, in the spiritual levels of Taoist yoga. When people get older they’ve used up so much of their chi that the brain energy and spinal fluid gradually drain out and dry up, leaving a cavity. The testicle breathing transports the sexual energy to fill the cavity and vitalize the brain. Taoists regard the sexual energy as very close to the brain energy.

9. Finally you can bring the sexual energy from the testes up to the head in one sweet draw up the straw, a single clean inhale. In the beginning you can just go from station to station, till you feel the back channel (governor channel) is more open. Eventually you will be able to put your mind in the testicles and the crown of the head and just mentally move the sexual energy from the testicles up all the way to the brain.

10. Take your time to really feel the “cold” when you practice. Don’t rush it, and always keep those pumps going as you breath in and out. Use more mind than physical pull when you do all this. Let the “cold” feeling be your guide. Work at it too hard and you’ll heat up the “cold” chi. You won’t be able to safely store this hot energy in your brain.

The Golden Nectar

When your head is filled with sperm energy the excess sexual chi may spontaneously combust with the chi in your higher centers and spill over into the Microcosmic Orbit and flow down through your palate and down the tongue. This will taste different to different people. It's generally called the Golden Nectar but it can taste like champagne, honey, coconut juice, or fragrance of all kinds of things, or it can simply feel like a warm tingling sensation on your tongue.
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Offered with Love.

xeno

This post has been edited by xenolith: Dec 3 2006, 10:22 PM

Wow, I cant believe what I've missed not coming into the lobby for so long. Welcome! I'm going to have to print out your last post to read it slowly and digest it.

Very nice getting explanations from someone who is obviously experienced with the Mantak Chia path and not a dabbler.

Thanks Darin.

I'm sure that I'll write more. I don't want to be considered evangelical with this. I'm just a cat that's experienced some challenging things in Life and at some subconcious level understood that much earlier in my Life than my concious mind did and as a result was compelled by my subconcious mind to seek means of obtaining great inner strength in order to attempt (and succeed with!) what my subconcious mind knew would be a monumental series of tasks in order to overcome the challenges dealt me. Thus I found SKF. I think SKF, among it's other functions in my Life, served as a model for my process/progress through the series of tasks that I needed to negotiate in Life to overcome my challenges. The determination, perserverance and commitment that succesful negotiation of SKF demands trained me with each small (and the rare big!) success, for successful negotiation of those tasks required of me in Life (which have, and do, require the same qualities). In that sense, SKF has been a fundamental component of my Life and in making me me.

I had no idea what awaited me with CCOs. Simply stated, I believe them to be short-circuits of a body's neurological system. And not uncoincidentally, accompanied by "massive" conciousness. What could be more profound? That one survives to tell of anyway.

I consider myself extaordinarily fortunate to have learned how to do this. In some form, I think I should share it. IOW, impart Love. Because Love is the fabric that we exist in. And from which we draw the energy that makes us go. Including me. So I will. Here.

There are many other benefits to SKF practice, but literally, none as profound as CCOs (of course, I'm happy to suspend my belief!).

Like I said, I'll write more.

Best regards,

xeno

This post has been edited by xenolith: Dec 6 2006, 08:15 PM

"Stimulation with the Aneros device results in what is akin to the pot of fluid boiling over, and the spilling of this fluid feels good. This is a prostate orgasm, or for purposes of this discussion, a leaking chi orgasm. "


i totally agree that the aneros and other similar devices can indeed cause the qi to leak out. thhat has been my experience.


your account of CCO's is interesting. did it happen spontaineously?
if so, that's interesting because from my experience, the MCO can open on it's own during a certain meditation, and similar although less intense sensations can subsequently occur which i can liken to whole body orgasm.
although i don't like like the term orgasm because it has connotations of intense pulsations, building up to an climax with an inevitable and rapid ending
i prefer to use the description of 'blissfull waves' which is experienced not only physically, but on a corresponding spiritual levle.

looking forward to your next writing.

Nice thread! Welcome to taobums! I've had zero experience with CCO, and limited experience with 'heartgasms'. Matthewqi who used to post here regularly said that he had considerable experience with the crown chakra and said that he has experienced kundalini awakening in his crown chakra and regularly uses Chia's practices. Maybe he's still PM-able? We also had that nice kundalini awakened farmer here who posted a bit maybe a year ago. Anyone remember his name? You might also check out advancedyogapractices.com.

-Yoda

PS, Freeform... Yoda believes you! So don't be a tease and cough up the recipe!

No and yes. No in that I had to experience a "conditioning" period, which may be considered a "priming of the pump" period prior to achieving the ability to achieve CCO. I regret to report that for me that period was 10 years. And it appears to me that less is not realistic to consider. In any case, that constitutes the "no"part of the answer. The "yes" part is comprised of this: post priming period, upon bringing chi to the crown, there is initially a warming that is pleasant but not strikingly so. With continued chi delivery to the crown and the deliberate effort to contain it at the crown, a spontaneous thing happens: the initial sensation is that of a cerebral warming, which upon ititiation of the CCO transforms into a sensation of a cascade of viscous fluid dripping down the inside of the skull. Contemporaneous with this is the sensation of a strong very pleasant odor...the sensations of a viscous fluid cascading down the inside of the skull and the fragrant taste/smell are in combination, the golden nectar...for me it always smells/tastes like what magnolia blossoms smell like. Subsequent to this, my awareness doesn't include my body. Having noted this in my initial CCO, I've repeatedly tried to sense my body during subsequent CCOs. I can't do it. I'm convinced that the reason for this is that the brain stimulation is so great that even though I'm tugging on my penis in order to send pulses of chi to my crown in order to witness the churning of my dynamo an it's relationship to the energy field within which it exists, I'm not even aware of my penis, let alone the rest of my body. Very curious that. This is among the reasons why my current working hypothesis on the mechanics of CCOs includes short-circuiting of the sympathetic nervous system to that of the vagus nerve (a system as well really as it "meanders" and branches to and through many parts of the body).

Suffice it to say, the awarenesses of a CCO (neuro-electric change) is so profound that one's (presuming mine is equivalent to one's) mental abilities in the physical realm are as far as I can tell effectively null. There is a sympathetic increase in one's mental abilities in the spirtitual realm. The principal mechanism by which this appears to take place is by means of what I can best describe as wholesale ego stripping. The loss of awareness of one's body does significant work towards stripping one of one's sense of ego, but more significant still is the intensely humbling sensation conveyed by the awareness of one's energy "package" (i.e. one's dynamo) in the infinite energy field within which it (one, you, me) exists. It is this understanding that is simultaneously, in order of sensation, incredibly humbling, beautiful and satisfying. Ego reduction is accomplished in a very efficient manner while these sensations are occuring.

I must prepare myself for experiences of CCOs. To face such experiences contains (equally) great potential for self damage as it does for self evolution. One must be very well aquainted with one's self in order to engage one's self in the naked format that the CCO experience imposes. This reality is, IMO, a built in safeguard of the apparently requisite period of conditioning, which, more succinctly can be thought of as a period of supplication of the ego. The eventuality of freeing one's self by means of releasing the vestiges of one's ego presupposes that one is prepared to view the infinite energy field that is Tao and have the strength of self to engage with the incredible power and humbling (ego stripping) nature of it. This (IMO) is why one must engage in the ego reduction and concommitent self realization that the long years of SKF training produces prior to the experience of CCO. It's a precursor of things to come.

Love.

xeno

This post has been edited by xenolith: Dec 30 2006, 09:10 AM

Bums,

I've posted about Seminal Kung Fu (SKF) and achieving Crown Chakra (or Center) Orgasm (CCO) in this thread and others. Based on my experience, the most difficult move of SKF is pumping chi past the sacral pump to the Ming-Men. Also difficult, but less so (again, based on my experience) is distilling jing into chi so that it may enter the coccyx and therefore be further moved to higher centers. I've found that a strong Bulbospongiosus (sometimes referred to as Bulbocavernous) muscle contributes greatly to expiditing these more difficult moves. In the case of the former, flexing of a (strong) BS muscle significantly assists the sacral pump in moving chi past this most difficult of hurdles. Even more significant assistance is provided by the strong BS muscle in the case of the latter, where it facilitates juggling of hot jing, without loss, allowing it to cool and be distilled into cool chi, which may then be propelled into the coccyx (again assisted by the strong BS muscle) and upward to the sacral pump. Where, as previously described, the strong BS muscle again, still has some significant benefit in supporting the sacral pump. Considering these benefits, clearly a strong BS muscle is a tremendous advantage to succesful accomplishment of negotiation of the most difficult of the SKF moves required to achieve adeptness and experience of CCO.

The best way to strengthen the BS muscle is with weight lifting. Tu Jin-Sheng is a current leader of iron crotch techniques that focus on strengthening the BS muscle and facilitating, among the spiritually significant endeavors of MCO activation, SKF adeptness and achievement of CCO, seemingly unbelievable physical feats of strength with the BS muscle.

In the former video, Tuck lifts what I think is 150lbs. I have no idea what force Tu is moving in the latter video...big though. My current training weight is 100-120lbs., which I lift in 20-30 minutes sets. My current maximum weight is about 180-200lbs., which I lift in the manner of Tuck. I can kegel-lift approximately half of my training weight. Kegel-lift strength is BS muscle strength. I'd post a picture of me lifting but I'm too modest.

In short, I recomend that men interested in the spiritually significant endeavors of MCO activation, SKF adeptness and achievement of CCO, strengthen their BS muscles.

Love.

xeno

This post has been edited by xenolith: Jan 3 2007, 08:49 PM

Hello:

Just a question about brain orgasms.

I, depending of the day, have more or less ease to ascend the energy up the spine. I use to contract the muscle you mention to help the energy go upwards but it doesn't work out always. In fact, it uses to be more useful to swing the buttocks to propel the energy.

Anyway, if I contract my anus the very first times I have a sort of an electric shocks which make my head shake abrupt and rapidly. I suppose that's something good, a kind of an initial openning. It just happens with the first two or three contractions.

The energy gets to lessen in the upper part of the back, just before getting to the neck. But as I go on ascending I feel a great opening of visudha, I mean, it's like if my front chakras start to open and the energy goes up the spine.

The brain is a dificult point, I think. The only times I've felt something it was like a strange itch inside the skull. It was weird and pleasurable, but not like that viscous sensations you mention, nor the smell. Even more, many faces (of people I know) start to come rapidly with every brain charge. As if my mind got really clear.

The most intense moment arrives when I move the energy in circles, and the downward path to the navel burns a lot once I move it down.

So, I'd like to hear from your wise experience what you think about my work. I'd like to move more rapidly, because I use to try with porn films just because that frees my mind of fantasizing and let me center my attention in my physical sensations. But I think that can "corrupt" my mind, in the sense that too much porn can't be good.

Thanks so much for your help.

Happy New Year everyone!

I can move energy up the spine and down to the navel though never had a CCO or BO (expect under the armpit variety). I've experienced an outside gets inside thing where my brain seems to resonate at the same frequency as the surrounding air and there's a tangible sense of space.

One problem with moving the energy down to the navel, especially if pr0n is being used, is that some of the energy can get stuck at the heart or place where intense desire is experienced, adding fuel to the fire. Then, as Trunk points out, there can be the danger of being constantly revved. To avoid this I ensure that a short while before the critcal moment all visuals and fantasies are dispensed with and focus is purely on sensation. As the energy descends I can be aware of the energy being drawn to the physical heart but can now direct it straight down to the navel and avoid overheating it.

I'm pragmatic about pr0n and see it as just another coloured cat to get the energy moving though not something that should be relied upon exclusively. Without being too puritanical about it a distinction can be made between healthy and unhealthy desire though as for corrupting the mind it depends purely on the nature of the pr0n and the quality of the desires provoked and re-enforced.

This post has been edited by rex: Jan 4 2007, 02:31 PM

I am quite certain the woman who said she was having heart chakra orgasms was having chi leakage, using your definitions. The difference was that she was leaking the energy from her heart chakra on purpose. It wasn't "leaking," she was "sending" it. Letting energy out from the heart chakra means it isn't there to build up to the next level. It must be held in to reach all the way to the top. Or received back amplified from a man at the sixth chakra.

What I'm trying to say is that I've been cheating! Like this-- 8 It is faster with two people of different genders.

CCO is a sperm's memory of fertilizing the egg... at least it is to someone who believes memory is everything and everything is memory, and... remembers.

Practices that trigger out-of-context non-integrated somatosensory memories are invariably dangerous. I can have a CCO anytime I like and the time I like to have it is "never." Much the same way I "never" want to have claws instead of nails and scales instead of skin, even though all of it is available to me because all of it happened in the past and the memory of how to make it happen again is sleeping soundly in my jing... which is not "sperm," contrary to what some of the resident males might believe, but memory -- ontogenic and philogenic memory I inherited from the billions-years-long life lineage that brought me into being, from my parents' DNA, and from my own prenatal development. If I were to choose to unblock any part of this long sequence of memorable events, I would first of all make sure there's a damn good reason I want to do it. I would never, ever do it for the hell of it... Ask any lab chicken in which they unblocked the pterodactyl genes so that it developed teeth instead of a beak how much fun it is to be a monster created for no other reason than just because someone can. CCO is not quite as monstrous, but basically follows the same out-of-sequence memory lane, and doing it "just because we can" -- thanks but no thanks...

I practice female taoist sexual alchemy alright, but this, only knowing exactly what it is I'm after, and making sure every step of the way I don't do things "just because I can."

My humble, of course.

No offense, but there is a REASON why emptiness is the pre-req for the circulation of chi. Another reason why these practices were kept secret from "non-monk-types" folks who are still attached to the red dust of the world. Images are deceptive. The "problem" w/ your practice, based on your statement above, is attachment.

Spectrum

I definitely don't belong here. Attachment is the only thing worthwhile!