[Wu-Liu]

Ok guys and gals,
I've been fascinated with this for a long time, but I'm only now considering doing it diligently.
I know this has been briefly talked about in other posts, but I'd like to go into a little greater detail. What experiences have you all had with this method, and which translation do you think is best? I have both Wilhelm and Cleary, but I think I heard there's an Eva Wong version too. Anyway, I'd love some input and please keep it civil and intelligent. None of this "well, you're stupid 'cause Cleary's stupid" stuff. Thanks.

But here's what I'd like to get deeper knowledge in:

Wilhelm's version claims to have a teacher behind it explaining it to him.
Also, it describes "circulating the light" which I am assuming is either the microcosmic orbit or a very similar practice. (we can get into what the light is later, as I've heard some dispute from time to time)

Cleary's version claims that Wilhelm was working with an incorrect translation or something, and that his scholarship and proficiency in Chinese allow him to do a better job.
Also, it describes "turning the light around" which I am assuming is something like inward gazing or Zen-like meditation.

Both are good practices, but which is supposed to be "The Secret of the Golden Flower" ??? Peace.

[Spirit Ape]

Could turning the light around be the reverse flow of the Orbit?

In my system we have a poem to discribe this called "reverse the heavenly river" which is the water path!

Just a thought...

Ape

[Wu-Liu]

Spirit Ape, on Dec 9 2008, 04:36 PM, said:

Could turning the light around be the reverse flow of the Orbit?

In my system we have a poem to discribe this called "reverse the heavenly river" which is the water path!

Just a thought...

Ape

Potentially, but the method Cleary describes is more turning the light "inward" if I remember correctly. It's been so long since I've read these though...

[Spirit Ape]

I see, i havent read any of the books of the Golden Flower for what i have been told no one can understand it correctly is that true?

Ape

I just found this when i went looking i give it a read, have you read this?

http://www.alchemyla...lden_flower.htm

[Wu-Liu]

Spirit Ape, on Dec 9 2008, 04:47 PM, said:

I see, i havent read any of the books of the Golden Flower for what i have been told no one can understand it correctly is that true?

Ape

I don't think it's impossible to understand, especially Cleary's translation. A bit of cryptic language, but what old treatise doesn't have that? (By the way, I am not claiming that I do understand it yet)

[Spirit Ape]

HEHEH I understand, do you think that the "flower of life" is connected to the Golden flower, the Merkabar (spelling)?

Ape

[Ken]

The text itself is not a manual of instruction. You can't follow the text and do the practice. Doing so is nothing more than indulging in your own fantasy.

This post has been edited by Ken: 09 December 2008 - 02:04 PM

[Wu-Liu]

Ken, on Dec 9 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

The text itself is not a manual of instruction. You can't follow the text and do the practice. Doing so is nothing more than indulging in your own fantasy.

Please elaborate. I was under the impression that this was a method of cultivation. But maybe I'm more impressional than I realize

[Ken]

I will try to post something relevant, obviously that's something that i believe is true and accurate relating to the classics and hoepfully some will find them interesting. Not expecting to please everyone though

Wu-Liu, on Dec 9 2008, 02:33 PM, said:

Please elaborate. I was under the impression that this was a method of cultivation. But maybe I'm more impressional than I realize

This post has been edited by Ken: 09 December 2008 - 02:55 PM

[Spirit Ape]

I thought the same when i read the Golden Flower just a few minutes ago, it really doesnt tell you much. Ken, please post what you have?

Ape

[Taiji Bum]

Ken, on Dec 9 2008, 05:03 PM, said:

The text itself is not a manual of instruction. You can't follow the text and do the practice. Doing so is nothing more than indulging in your own fantasy.

I used it as a manual and it worked. I had the basics explained to my by my taijiquan teacher but the meat of my practice was "The Secret of the Golden Flower" and mine was the Wilhelm edition. I practiced the reverse flowing method (circulating the light/microcosmic orbit) while focusing on the center of the brain (reverse gazing) just like it said and it worked.

Sorry to pimp my Journal but almost my entire Journal area is based on the methods taught in "The Secret of the Golden Flower". http://www.thetaobum...nHamel-f56.html

After practicing it I did make some personal changes to the order of the confirmatory signs detailed here-
http://www.thetaobum...IGHT-t4248.html

Here are the illustrations which are really nice just to contemplate-
http://www.thetaobum...ower-t4265.html

[Wu-Liu]

Ken, on Dec 9 2008, 05:44 PM, said:

I will try to post something relevant, obviously that's something that i believe is true and accurate relating to the classics and hoepfully some will find them interesting. Not expecting to please everyone though

Feel free. And I don't think I'll ever be able to please everyone. I stopped trying a long time ago

DarinHamel, on Dec 9 2008, 06:24 PM, said:

I used it as a manual and it worked. I had the basics explained to my by my taijiquan teacher but the meat of my practice was "The Secret of the Golden Flower" and mine was the Wilhelm edition. I practiced the reverse flowing method (circulating the light/microcosmic orbit) while focusing on the center of the brain (reverse gazing) just like it said and it worked.

Sorry to pimp my Journal but almost my entire Journal area is based on the methods taught in "The Secret of the Golden Flower". http://www.thetaobum...nHamel-f56.html

After practicing it I did make some personal changes to the order of the confirmatory signs detailed here-
http://www.thetaobum...IGHT-t4248.html

Here are the illustrations which are really nice just to contemplate-
http://www.thetaobum...ower-t4265.html

Darin, thanks. The links you posted are great. So Wilhelm worked great for you?

[Taiji Bum]

Wu-Liu, on Dec 9 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

Darin, thanks. The links you posted are great. So Wilhelm worked great for you?

Yep, it worked just like it said it would... just like a manual too. I prefer the Wilhelm version over the Cleary one but cant wait for Eva Wong to come out with hers. I am a big fan of her stuff and would love to hear her take on it.

[Wu-Liu]

DarinHamel, on Dec 9 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

Yep, it worked just like it said it would... just like a manual too. I prefer the Wilhelm version over the Cleary one but cant wait for Eva Wong to come out with hers. I am a big fan of her stuff and would love to hear her take on it.

And would you recommend anything before I practice this? I'm still learning as much about the Tao Te Ching as I can, and I'm learning from other classics as well. Should I be doing any kind of qigong before hand?

[Ken]

It worked for you ?? So you are now an immortal ? you can manipulate the original spirit to work for you ? You can let your orginal spirit subdivide into thousands of individuals ?

I am afraid your experience is just the kind of self-deluded fantasy i am talking about.

DarinHamel, on Dec 9 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

I used it as a manual and it worked. I had the basics explained to my by my taijiquan teacher but the meat of my practice was "The Secret of the Golden Flower" and mine was the Wilhelm edition. I practiced the reverse flowing method (circulating the light/microcosmic orbit) while focusing on the center of the brain (reverse gazing) just like it said and it worked.

Sorry to pimp my Journal but almost my entire Journal area is based on the methods taught in "The Secret of the Golden Flower". http://www.thetaobum...nHamel-f56.html

After practicing it I did make some personal changes to the order of the confirmatory signs detailed here-
http://www.thetaobum...IGHT-t4248.html

Here are the illustrations which are really nice just to contemplate-
http://www.thetaobum...ower-t4265.html

This post has been edited by Ken: 09 December 2008 - 05:15 PM

[Wu-Liu]

Ken, on Dec 9 2008, 08:14 PM, said:

It worked for you ?? So you are now an immortal ? you can manipulate the original spirit to work for you ? You can let your orginal spirit subdivide into thousands of individuals ?

I am afraid your experience is just the kind of self-deluded fantasy i am talking about.

I think I am beginning to see your point. You're saying that the results achieved by this method are delusionary? (Darin, I'm not refuting you here... ) But I'm getting well and truly torn now...

[Taiji Bum]

Ken, on Dec 9 2008, 08:14 PM, said:

It worked for you ?? So you are now an immortal ? you can manipulate the original spirit to work for you ? You can let your orginal spirit subdivide into thousands of individuals ?

I am afraid your experience is just the kind of self-deluded fantasy i am talking about.

Alrighty then...... your new here so I will type s-l-o-w-l-y... f-o-r..... y-o-u..... I did great until the last nine year period where I somehow failed since I am not immortal and didn't do the nine times nine selves part. I've stated that countless times on this forum. Did you read anything I posted in my Journal section Ken? If I were immortal I wouldn't be here on the computer..... I'd be chasing nymphs or something.....

Wu-Liu, on Dec 9 2008, 08:08 PM, said:

And would you recommend anything before I practice this? I'm still learning as much about the Tao Te Ching as I can, and I'm learning from other classics as well. Should I be doing any kind of qigong before hand?

I wouldn't recomend anything but a healthy diet.

[Wu-Liu]

DarinHamel, on Dec 9 2008, 08:26 PM, said:

Alrighty then...... your new here so I will type s-l-o-w-l-y... f-o-r..... y-o-u..... I did great until the last nine year period where I somehow failed since I am not immortal and didn't do the nine times nine selves part. I've stated that countless times on this forum. Did you read anything I posted in my Journal section Ken? If I were immortal I wouldn't be here on the computer..... I'd be chasing nymphs or something.....
I wouldn't recomend anything but a healthy diet.

Well, I've got a lot of improvement to do in that department... Thanks for your help Darin! And I think that if any of us were immortal, spending our evenings on the computer is the last thing we'd do. With that, I'm out of here for the evening.

[Spirit Ape]

So what did you get out of Golden flower, too busy to read your journal for now, can you give us a quick breakdown what you have achieved and felt, seen, or experienced since during Golden Flower?

Ape

[Creation]

A guy named JJ Semple wrote a memoir called "Deciphering the Golden Flower" (previously "Diary of a Connecticut Yogi") detailing how a childhood accident stunted his development, his subsequent troubles and misadventures. The thrust is someone gave him Wilhelm's SotGF, he practiced it, awakened his kundalini and healed himself. I really recommend it. He has a great narrative ability and a great story to tell. I read most of the book on Google Books in a couple of hours, so check it out if you are interested.

Semple just came out with another book, called "The Backward-Flowing Method," giving more details on what he actually practiced, presumably to fill in the holes in SotGF. He claims it is a reliable and safe way to awaken kundalini. Yet no Taoist source gave me that impression, and I haven't even found the claim that anyone else actually has used his method and gotten the same effect. I haven't read this one or tried his practices. But he swears that the "reversing the light" part is what was responsible for his awakening.

So... Anyone know anything about Semple and his methods? Any comments from our resident kundalini expert Santiago?

Actually, I was just thinking about starting a thread about this, since I hadn't seen anything about it on here before. Maybe someone who's not a noob like me can tell me if I should go ahead and start another thread.