[Creation]

april, on Mar 15 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

This is a very subtle technique whose implementation begins only at the moment when a practitioner perceives that his breath has the property of direction. You may remember that I spoke about regularity and receiving signals from the body. Detecting the property of direction is a perfect example of this type of signal. Picture a mountain stream, a leaf caught in an eddy, circling round and round. Detecting the property of movement is a little like watching the leaf caught in the tide pool. Only it’s happening inside your belly. Picture a feather in your belly. All of a sudden it’s there, fluttering in the lower belly. Is it a sensation or part of the breathing process? You realize it’s moving up the front and down the back in this very tight circle. But that’s not completely understandable, is it? This notion of a tight little circle in the lower belly. I’d prefer to use the terms forward and backward, but forward or backward in relation to what? The sensation of a feather rotating in a circle in the lower belly. If I was an artist, I could draw it using a side cutaway view. From a side view I could illustrate the notions of “property of direction” and "change of direction." But I can’t draw. Too bad, because that’s when you command it to change directions. Down the front and up the back. Down the front and up the back. So you know what? At a certain point, you just have to get there on your own. That’s right, no one can do it for you. In my next book on Kundalini, I’ll find an artist to illustrate what I’m talking about. Will it solve the problem of describing the process once and for all? I wouldn't bet on it.

JJ,
Thank you for continued contributions to the forum. The above was especially helpful to me.

So the rotation is not of the microcosmic orbit but of the dan tien itself? Perhaps that explains the direction difference in direction. To clarify, it the sensation of a forward spinning is independent of whether one is breathing in or out, correct? Actually, what you describe (down the back, up the front) seems more like backward, because a wheel spinning like that would go backwards...

I have heard of the sensation of a spinning in the lower abdomen before, I think from Waysun Liao's T'ai Chi Classics. Anyone else have info on this from another perspective/lineage?

But putting aside technical issues that I don't really understand anyway,

april, on Mar 15 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

Serious metaphysical investigation and practice is all about wonder, about the invisible layers we cannot see, the unseen world that surrounds us, and our desire to explore it. To succeed, we must roll up our sleeves...

Great advice. My main practices these days are spontaneous movement qigong (to get the energy going) and exploring the breath, i.e. going back and forth between intentionally regulating it to be slow, deep, go down into the lower abdomen, etc. and just observing and following the flow. I can vaguely perceive that the dan tien has its own flow of breathing in and out like an energetic lung, but I do not yet have a feeling of spinning.

Do you have any knowledge of how reversing the direction affects one's ability to progress on other inner-alchemy paths? After all, it is not something you can undo right?

[vortex]

Creation, on Mar 15 2009, 02:48 PM, said:

So the rotation is not of the microcosmic orbit but of the dan tien itself? Perhaps that explains the direction difference in direction. To clarify, it the sensation of a forward spinning is independent of whether one is breathing in or out, correct? Actually, what you describe (down the back, up the front) seems more like backward, because a wheel spinning like that would go backwards...

I have heard of the sensation of a spinning in the lower abdomen before, I think from Waysun Liao's T'ai Chi Classics. Anyone else have info on this from another perspective/lineage?

Is the current spinning in a vertical loop like a waterwheel, or a horizontal circle like a clockface lying flat on the ground?

[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[rain]

winpro07, on Mar 16 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

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ahh. I "run" like crazy to reach winpro's comments..but have to bite the dust ...

This post has been edited by rain: 16 March 2009 - 12:43 PM

[april]

AugustLeo, on Mar 16 2009, 05:49 AM, said:

Here's another description of the breathing process.

Don't know whether this helps, or is even visible, but here's a crude cross-section drawing of the "breath" sensation. In Figure 1, after much practice, the practitioner perceives (gets the sensation) that the "breath is flowing" in the direction as illustrated. In Figure 2, he executes a mental command to have the breath change directions, and it does. This begins the Kundalini awakening process as described in Deciphering the Golden Flower One Secret at a Time.

 BackwardFlowDiagram.jpg (22.31K)
Number of downloads: 323

In Figure 2, "the breath" moves in the opposite direction (backward) in relation to Figure 1.

Don't know whether this clarifies. I'm a really bad artist. Nevertheless, as I was sitting one morning almost 40-years-ago, I was suddenly able to sense/visualize my breath and it had the "property of direction." That is, it was flowing as in Figure 1. Immediately, that sparked a connection with The SGF. I grabbed the book, found the reference to the backward-flowing method, read it and decided I had found the key to the book. I realized it meant I would have to and would be able to change the direction of the perceived flow merely by mentally commanding the breath to start circulating in the other (reverse) direction. I also realized that it was irreversible.

I did and it worked, and it is irreversible.

More later...after I find a good artist.

JJ Semple

[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[april]

AugustLeo, on Mar 18 2009, 08:32 PM, said:

One question - does the flow of breath you show occur only in the abdomen or does it follow the microcosmic orbit (i.e., up the spine, over the head, down the front), and is it only "down the front" on the inhale instead of "up the back" on the inhale?

Thanks.

Have you read my account in Deciphering the Golden Flower One Secret at a Time? It describes what happens after you reverse the "breath." That's what you want to do as soon as you detect the condition described in my previous post. The only thing to consider with the rational mind, at this point, is whether you really want to do it. I say this because activating Kundalini is a big step. Not everyone has the leisure time to deal with an active Kundalini.

Reversing the breath triggers a series of autonomic events. It's what I call the It does you phase!; you are no longer in charge. So, the question is: Do you want to turn your life over to Kundalini?

JJ

[AugustLeo]

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[AugustLeo]

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[Wu-Liu]

AugustLeo, on Mar 23 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

From Cultivating the Energy of Life by Liu Hua-Yang, translated by Eva Wong:

Wow! That's quite a provocative bit of info, Leo. I wish I had my copy with me. Have you compared it with the Hui Ming Ching from the back of the Wilhelm version? You know, the text between the Golden Flower and Jung's commentary. I'm curious to see how they relate. And I wonder exactly how to interpret this section... What were you thinking?

[AugustLeo]

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[Scotty]

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Do not use the 'forward' or 'backward' methods. The 'forward method' refers to techniques of massage and breath control. The 'backward method' refers to techniques of concentrated (insight) meditation. These methods do not cultivate original nature and life simultaneously.

What methods are used, according to Eva Wong's translation? Or should I just go buy the book?

[AugustLeo]

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[Wu-Liu]

AugustLeo, on Mar 23 2009, 08:53 PM, said:

I've merely quoted some parts of the book in isolation. It would be best to read the book and draw your own conclusions.

This is still a very interesting observation, Leo. I read Wong's book before I knew anything about the backward flowing method, or really anything about Taoism, so I didn't even remember this passage. I am truly at a loss right now, haha. I'm glad I don't have these books with me actually. I'd probably be up all night re-reading them. Based on Wong's explanation, we'd probably be better off steering clear of the Wilhelm version all together. That's wierd to me, since both JJ Semple and Darin here on taobums have used the Wilhelm version. *Ugh* I'm back to my old arguing with myself thing again...

[AugustLeo]

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[Wu-Liu]

AugustLeo, on Mar 24 2009, 07:37 AM, said:

From my perspective, JJ Semple's results and Darin's results speak for themselves.

A good point. I'm going to look into it more at Easter, since that's the next time I'll be at my house. Still, I'm glad you put that passage up there. Makes me want to delve deeper, which is a good thing, I think.