Wu-Liu, on Mar 24 2009, 04:50 AM, said:
A good point. I'm going to look into it more at Easter, since that's the next time I'll be at my house. Still, I'm glad you put that passage up there. Makes me want to delve deeper, which is a good thing, I think.
Ladies and Gents,
Two points...
First, does anyone know about Eva Wong's personal practice? Has she activated Kundalini? Sure, she's written/translated lots of books. I'm not questioning her reputation as a translator, just reminding everyone that in this work, as Ouspensky says, "You must verify everything you see, hear and feel." In other words I have trouble relying on a description or explanation UNLESS I have tested it in the laboratory of my own body. Now, as you know; that is, if you believe
what I've written about my forty years of experiencing and living with Kundalini, I have tested this process. I've worked my way through it from start to finish. What's all the more interesting about my experience is the aspect of trial and error. Those of you who have read my books know that I succeeded only after failing many times over, only after stumbling. This gave me much more information, much more insight into the whole process. If something comes easily, you breeze right through it. Not in my case... I got down and dirty. Kundalini tore me apart and put me back together.
So, the only way to
delve deeper, as far as I'm concerned, is to practice. The rest is polemics and terminology and labels and words and opinion and second-hand stuff. At some point, each one of us has to bite the bullet. I'm not saying that there's nothing to be gained by reading. I read a lot before I began my practice; nowadays, however, it's become counter-productive. I don't need to read; I know what happens. The more one reads, the greater the risk of confusion. If you must read (and I don't discourage reading), TEST as you read. I like Leo's comment:
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As far as I can tell, the actual practice is essentially the same as described by JJ Semple, Darin Hamel, and limitless sky. There may be some confusion about terms such as 'backward method' and 'backward flowing method' which Eva Wong translates to mean "insight meditation". Liu Hua-yang writes about 'clockwise flow' which is leakage of sexual energy, and 'counter-clockwise' flow which is circulation of sexual energy in the Dharmic Wheel (Microcosmic Orbit). In this book, as far as I can tell, none of these terms have anything to do with the direction of the actual breathing.
I think Leo hit the nail on the head. Terminology is the bane of this work; the only way to clarify is to do. As Bruce Lee said, "Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do.” He was an immediate sort of guy. We should all be immediate individuals if we want to succeed. Sit cross-legged, start to breathe and you body will tell you what your doing. Your body will guide you.
I really don't know what EW is talking about because I don't know what the terms mean. I think I've written explicitly about my misgivings with terminology in this thread before. I don't want to repeat myself. I only know that I had no idea what the term
backward-flowing method meant before I started my practice. But I found out by DOING. What I found out is that the backward-flowing method I discovered may be only
my BFM. Not Eva Wong's, or Cleary's, or Wilhelm's, or anyone else's. You have to find your own BFM. Call it what you want, it must enable you to activate Kundalini. It must produce results. Otherwise, what's the point?
Now my BFM may be slightly or many degrees different from any experience thus far documented; it may the same. What will be different, nevertheless, are the descriptions. Why? Because to describe something, one must use words, terms, polemics. We become attached to words. Too attached, in fact. Words take on a proprietary aspect. We OWN these terms and they are better than the terms so-and-so uses. Let go of the terms... Do!
Second, Leo I have trouble answering your question:
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Edit: I don't experience my breathing in any of the ways you have described yours. I experience my breathing as follows: On the inhale, I feel the sensation of pressure start at the internal side of my sacrum, and as the inhale continues, the sensation of pressure moves up the inside of my spine to my neck, like a pressure wave. Between the inhale and exhale, I feel what I will call an 'electromagnetic' sensation (though this isn't really an acurate adjective) at my crown. On the exhale, I feel the sensation of release start inside the notch of my throat, and as the exhale continues, the sensation of release moves downward as a release wave, under my breast bone, through the abdominal muscles and ends in the pelvic floor, where I feel an 'electromagnetic' sensation until the next inhale begins. To put it simply, for each inhale-exhale cycle, I feel a wave of sensation start in my pelvic floor, travel up my back to the crown of my head, and on the exhale I feel a wave of sensation travel down my front to end at the pelvic floor.
This is part of your practice, so it is real, not only to you, but within the larger framework of metaphysical reality. You've taken a lot of time to select your words and craft your sentences. What was the outcome of this practice? Has it come to conclusion, produced results? If you are satisfied with the results and believe them to be repeatable, why don't you try it with some students?
As for my descriptions, I opt for simplicity. I go back to the notion of the
You do it! and
It does you! phases (
page 17 BFM). During the
You do it! phase (see below), I spent a lot of time trying to follow my breath, some of it was like your description. Sensations, observations, etc. Once the Kundalini took over, I no longer had to "bother" with this. It has
a life of its own. Notice I use the term "detective work" to describe this stage of the process, which applies, by the way, to a lot of what we are doing in this forum — in this thread right now. Trouble is dectives test their theories as they move forward. I'd like to see more discussion of results, and a corresponding working backwards from results to techniques. That was my approach: I did, I let it settle, I assimilated, I wrote. I would have trouble doing it the other way around, or any other way. It took a long time.
080605_BFM_FlowChart02a.001.jpg (61.7K)
Number of downloads: 80
Again, I try to reduce the language and the terms to their simplest states. Diaphragm, belly, inhale, exhale, hold. Terms everyone understands, and even then there are problems. What I'm saying is that I have no way of improving on what you have described because I can't correlate it with my own experience, whose description, by the way, could probably be improved if taken one step at a time so as to not become overburdened with conflicting terminology.
Maybe we could all sit in a room one day and hash this out together. GO LIVE! with it
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Awesome.
MultiQuote
Should I just go back and read the 126 posts of this thread from the beginning? 
From what you've written, I understand that you choose not to provide additional detail about what you call the backward-flowing method. That's fine. No point belaboring this topic any further. Thanks and best wishes. 
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