[Old Man Contradiction]

I want to address a topic that I believe isn't discussed enough here. When I first became interested in qigong, I spent a few months with some popular qigong systems that are sold in the west, for example, Mantak Chia's. Then I sought out a teacher and I benefited quickly from that decision.

It seems as if many qigong systems are incomplete by nature. A fundamental concept to being human, or taoist, is that the mind and body are one. A real system will challenge you both mentally and physically. This causes you to grow. Another important truth that a lot of qigong systems are missing is the "act of waking up". If you want your energy to wake up, your mind needs to be alert, alive, and focused.

Tai chi that's too soft, allowing the mind to lay mundanely and the muscles to grow weak.
Sitting qigong, that visualizes energy instead of actually using energy.
Moving qigong that is easy for the body and dormant for the mind.
Karate forms that stiffen the body and stress the heart.

Isn't there a way to practice that is both yin and yang?

[fiveelementtao]

As you say, a true system will have both. That's why it is important to find a qualified teacher of a good system. You mentioned Tai Chi... Tai Chi has been taught incorrectly for the most part. Very few teachers teach authentic Tai Chi Chuan. True Tai Chi includes the softness of relaxed muscles as well as the "hard" aspect of tendon strength. Without the tendon power, Tai Chi is mostly just a health exercise. True Tai Chi should look soft but there is a hardness underneath it.
This is something that only can be learned from a qualified teacher.

Old Man Contradiction, on Nov 20 2009, 05:48 PM, said:

I want to address a topic that I believe isn't discussed enough here. When I first became interested in qigong, I spent a few months with some popular qigong systems that are sold in the west, for example, Mantak Chia's. Then I sought out a teacher and I benefited quickly from that decision.

It seems as if many qigong systems are incomplete by nature. A fundamental concept to being human, or taoist, is that the mind and body are one. A real system will challenge you both mentally and physically. This causes you to grow. Another important truth that a lot of qigong systems are missing is the "act of waking up". If you want your energy to wake up, your mind needs to be alert, alive, and focused.

Tai chi that's too soft, allowing the mind to lay mundanely and the muscles to grow weak.
Sitting qigong, that visualizes energy instead of actually using energy.
Moving qigong that is easy for the body and dormant for the mind.
Karate forms that stiffen the body and stress the heart.

Isn't there a way to practice that is both yin and yang?

[Blasto]

Nei Kung is where it's at.

www.neikungla.com

www.chutaichi.com

Have you embraced your horse today?

[Old Man Contradiction]

fiveelementtao, on Nov 20 2009, 05:00 PM, said:

As you say, a true system will have both. That's why it is important to find a qualified teacher of a good system. You mentioned Tai Chi... Tai Chi has been taught incorrectly for the most part. Very few teachers teach authentic Tai Chi Chuan. True Tai Chi includes the softness of relaxed muscles as well as the "hard" aspect of tendon strength. Without the tendon power, Tai Chi is mostly just a health exercise. True Tai Chi should look soft but there is a hardness underneath it.
This is something that only can be learned from a qualified teacher.

Yes, that seems right. Relaxed muscles and strong tendons. I have to say we do a lot of bodyweight exercise a la western boxing and kung fu at my school, so we do gain a lot of muscular strength and endurance.

I'd like to highlight your statement "Without the tendon power, Tai Chi is mostly just a health exercise.", and add that if somebody is only interested in gaining health, that they still need to train for the martial aspect of Tai Chi. To train to fight with tai chi develops your maximum energy. Later in life, this is what you'll need to stay healthy and fight off disease. Just doing inauthentic taiji for health may not give you the energy you need to benefit your health when you really need it to.

Blasto, on Nov 20 2009, 05:49 PM, said:

Nei Kung is where it's at.

....
Have you embraced your horse today?

I can't say I've heard the term Nei Kung. But from what I've read in your post it's an integral part of the fundamental level of my training. With the nei kung using the internal muscles for all movements, the 6 directions, and connecting up the body.

As for the horse, I'm doing night training tonight. It'll be in there.

This post has been edited by Old Man Contradiction: 20 November 2009 - 07:26 PM

[steam]

s-kb4hVyhQA

[Blasto]

"I can't say I've heard the term Nei Kung. But from what I've read in your post it's an integral part of the fundamental level of my training. With the nei kung using the internal muscles for all movements, the 6 directions, and connecting up the body.

As for the horse, I'm doing night training tonight. It'll be in there.
[/quote]


I was a little surprised by the absence of Nei Kung discussion in this forum, so I’ve taken the liberty of quoting Bruce Frantzis at length from his “Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body.” It seems as lucid as any other scholar/writer I’ve read, and is consistent with the writings of Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming in “Qigong for Health and Martial Arts.

I hope everyone finds this useful. Again, I am quoting; these are not my conclusions, although my fledgling Nei Kung experience of a mere two years is consistent with the author’s. Since I have begun to work out with my personal training clients in the last few weeks, after taking some time off from kettlebell drills, I now experience a constant, low-level vibration throughout my upper torso and limbs, and, as Frantzis makes clear, it is subject to the mind’s direction. (Freakishly cool. I’m in heaven.)

“Traditional Chi Kung and Nei Kung – What’s the Difference?”

“Up until fifty years ago, the term Chi Kung was rarely used in China for chi development practices; the more prevailing terms were Nei Kung (internal power) and Lien Kung (practice power). During the last half century, however, the term Chi Kung has gained ascendancy, especially in mainland China, where one finds a variety of forms, many with poetic or strange names, such as White Crane Chi Kung, Old man Climbs the stairs Chi kung, Plum Blossom Chi kung, and so forth.

All Chi king practices are derived from the parent Nei Kung systems. (The techniques found in this volume, for example, are al original Nei Kung practices.

Nei Kung Moves from the Inside Out;
Chi Kung Moves from the Outside In

The emphasis in Nie Kung is on developing the core energy that travels through the center of the body, and, from the core, opening and energizing the peripheral energy lines (the acupuncture meridians, for example). Chi Kung concentrates on working the more superficial energy lines first, and, through these, affecting the core energy. In this sense, Chi Kung is similar to acupuncture, which also manipulates the more superficial and peripheral energy through the meridians, collateral channels, and the eight special meridians to bring about changes at a deeper level.

Chi Kung Moves Chi with a Sequence of Body Movements; Nei Kung Moves Chi through Multiple Mind-body Interactions

In Chi Kung, the practitioner works one technique at a time, combining them gradually into a specific sequence. For instance, once an acupuncture channel is opened, then once opened, the practitioner opens the next in line, and so on. Thee are any number of techniques used in Chi Kung, from slapping to stretching to stomping, but the most important principle to remember about Chi Kung in general is that one chi flow is sequentially followed by another. Two or more rarely go on simultaneously.

The Nei Kung system, on the other hand, seeks to work all the chi flows of the system at one time, the ultimate objective being to synergistically combine the hundreds of chi flows in the body. This way, the practitioner will eventually have access to energy which, in its totality, is more than just the sum of the chi flowing through the channels. At high levels, the chi of the body, mind, and spirit integrates. The whole person then functions in the manner of a single huge cell, with all its chi pulsing in unison.

Of course, Nei Kung is learned one piece at a time, but it is practiced in a way that all learned pieces are performed simultaneously. Eventually, the practitioner’s energy permeates to the center of both the bone marrow and the spine. For this reason, Nei Kung is generally considered superior for people who want to have both superior health and great physical prowess.

Put simply, the main difference between Chi Kung and Nei Kung is that, in Chi Kung, technique A is followed by technique b followed by technique C, the effect of these is the cumulative effect of A plus B plus C. With Nei Kung, however, technique A is done at the same time as B and C; synergistically, the effect is that of A multiplied by B multiplied by C.

In Chi Kung, the Breath is a Vehicle for the Movement of Chi; in Nei Kung, the Mind Moves the Chi Directly

In the Chinese internal arts, the term “ breath” refers to distinct processes: first, the movement of air in and out of the lungs, which we will call the physical oxygen breath; and second, the ebb and flow of the chi or life force throughout the body, which we will call the subtle breath. The physical breath and the subtle breath can be coordinated, or they can work independently. Chi Kung coordinates the two, while Nei Kung works directly with the subtle breath, without the need for the intermediary of the physical breath.

In Chi Kung, the physical breath is used to forge a link between the mind and the chi or subtle breath. The mind or awareness focuses on the physical breath: you visualize the physical breath moving chi through your body and you feel the breath go into a particular part of your body. It thus makes contact with the chi or subtle breath. The in/out, suspension and quickening/slowing of the physical breath is coordinated with whatever one is doing, whether it be body movement, energy development, or visualization for the emotional, psychic, or spiritual aspects of one’s being.

In Nei Kung, however, the mind or awareness moves the chi directly, without the assistance of the physical breath. The mind may remain purely aware of the internal energy, or may direct it to specific tasks and energy channels. Nei Kung uses efficient physical breathing mechanisms that recreate how a baby breathes in the womb, but chi movement is independent of the physical breath, regardless of how you are breathing. The physical breath at times may become so slow, quiet, and still as to seem to disappear. The context of the subtle breath shifts from the physical breath to the presence of the mind itself.

Chi Kung is in general concerned more with specific acupuncture channels and points, whereas Nei Kung works more with the energy running from the crown of the head to the perineum and through the center of the bones of the arms and legs, as well as with the muscles, fascia, internal organs, glands, spinal cord, and brain. From a medical perspective, Chi Kung usually utilizes specific techniques for specific problems, while Nei Kung energizes the whole system, and this overall improvement in energy function leads to the eventual resolution of particular problems.

Chi Kung and Nei Kung Each Have Unique Strengths

As a general rule, a true Nei Kung expert with understand the methodologies of Chi Kung. However, the reverse is not true, - a Chi Kung expert will usually not be aware of all the Nei Kung methods. This would lead one to believe that Nei Kung is superior to Chi Kung, which is not necessarily the case. Many diseases and dysfunctions may be caused by and imbalance in only a small part of a person’s system. In these cases, it is better to apply Chi Kung techniques because only a limited number of chi flows need to be learned and practices to address the problem.

The Internal Martial Arts: Tai Chi, Hsing I, and Ba Gua

The three internal martial arts (above) are all based on the Nei Kung system of chi development. They combine the most effective fighting techniques of ancient China and fuse them with the Nei Kung system of internal power development. This combination produces two seemingly unrelated results: superior competitive athletic and fighting skills and superior health. These arts are also, at high levels, complete spiritual development systems.

[EagleShen]

Interesting, i was thinking of posting a somewhat related post myself on yin and yang cultivation. The two physically present teachers i've had, both very traditional in their approach, emphasise what i'd call a 'yin' approach to cultivating energy (ie let it arise naturally rather than making it happen), and a more yang approach to cultivating the body. My old teacher, Prof Wong, in fact told students doing Mantak Chia's fusion stuff to stop it while they were studying with him.

Love the commentary on Nei Kung, thank you. Any thoughts on where Dao Yin fits into this? I was under the impression that it was actually the term used for chi kung type practices before tai chi was developed and became popular. Have very little to back that up aside from a discussion with my chinese doctor.

[durkhrod chogori]

Old Man Contradiction, on Nov 20 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

...Isn't there a way to practice that is both yin and yang?

I am going to definitively recommend you Bagua. It is a very balanced art: both internal and external go hand in hand.

[lifeforce]

Old Man Contradiction, on Nov 21 2009, 12:48 AM, said:

Isn't there a way to practice that is both yin and yang?

http://www.amazon.co...t/dp/0865681740

[Stigweard]

To the OP, and reflecting some the posts, if your perception of Taiji is that it is too Yin then you have either not found a very good school or you haven't trained for long enough. Taiji balances song (looseness) and gun (tension), both must be trained. Saying that though, the initial training, well at least in my perspective, should be more song because people are conditioned to be too gun in the first place. Trying to teach intrinsic strength to a body fragmented by tensions is impossible. Also, qigong should be a perfect harmony of yin and yang.

[Marblehead]

Stigweard, on Nov 21 2009, 07:02 AM, said:

Also, qigong should be a perfect harmony of yin and yang.

Our total life should be that way as well.

Peace & Love!

[Ya Mu]

Old Man Contradiction, on Nov 20 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

...
Sitting qigong, that visualizes energy instead of actually using energy.
Moving qigong that is easy for the body and dormant for the mind.
...

Your comment on sitting qigong is right on IMO. In the neigong system I teach and practice we avoid all visualization, saying it is OK to SEE and FEEL the energy but putting the visualization in there actually slows things down; it becomes finite instead of infinite.

But not sure where you are going with the moving comment. The goal is to remove the mind from the equation to make it infinite - multidimensional instead of finite - 3-dimensional.

I have found that simple rebounding is both yin and yang and beats any exercise of any kind for efficiency as far as body exercises go. Rebounding neigong is INCREDIBLE but takes quite a bit of time for the mind to get over the "but I'm jumping up and down".

[steve f]

Old Man Contradiction, on Nov 20 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

I want to address a topic that I believe isn't discussed enough here. When I first became interested in qigong, I spent a few months with some popular qigong systems that are sold in the west, for example, Mantak Chia's. Then I sought out a teacher and I benefited quickly from that decision.

Most systems you will find in the West and in books, and in China, for that matter are incomplete or relatively recent and often constructed by unqualified people. You may want to investigate the modern history of QiGong in China. You will not like what you learn.

Old Man Contradiction, on Nov 20 2009, 04:48 PM, said:

It seems as if many qigong systems are incomplete by nature. A fundamental concept to being human, or taoist, is that the mind and body are one. A real system will challenge you both mentally and physically. This causes you to grow. Another important truth that a lot of qigong systems are missing is the "act of waking up". If you want your energy to wake up, your mind needs to be alert, alive, and focused.

Tai chi that's too soft, allowing the mind to lay mundanely and the muscles to grow weak.
Sitting qigong, that visualizes energy instead of actually using energy.
Moving qigong that is easy for the body and dormant for the mind.
Karate forms that stiffen the body and stress the heart.

Isn't there a way to practice that is both yin and yang?

I don't believe that any (or at least many) QiGong forms were intended to be complete systems of physical, mental, and spiritual growth. The old QiGong sets that I've learned are relatively short collections of exercises. Often they are designed for a specific purpose. For example, I practice ShiBa LuoHan QiGong and it is a great set to practice very hard for martial conditioning or very soft for Qi cultivation but its best to focus on one method or the other for an extended period of time to maximize the benefits. Similarly, I practice an "ancient" Eight Brocades set that is clearly more intended for overall Qi balancing/meridian opening and so on for health.

TaiJi Quan can be a relatively complete system, provided the soft and hard elements are balanced as already mentioned. Nevertheless it is incomplete without Dao meditation and neigong practices which may or may not be an inherent part of the system being taught (usually not).

As Marble mentioned, the important thing is to balance life as a whole and you may need a variety of practices to achieve that. It may be difficult to find everything you want/need in one system. In fact, IMO - there is really no need for a system at all..... unless we believe it to be so.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

Observe the Taiji symbol, Yin and Yang.. both are always present. Taijiquan is a Martial Art, it uses Yin and Yang in a balanced harmony.. Taijiquan is so brilliantly conceived that intention alone will determine its result.. The same form i do with Martial intent can be done as a purely meditative Qi development form, each dependent on awareness and intent.. no element or movement of Taijiquan is 100% Yin or Yang, even the perceived Yin of 'rollback' is simulatneously expressing ward-off with 'Peng', it is both Yin and Yang with a Yin intention.. Yin and Yang are interchangable at every instance, they are relative..

Consider the stages of water.. a bowl of room temperature water, a bowl of ice, and a bowl of steaming hot water.. by temperature, the ice is Yin to the room temp. water and the steaming hot water, but.. by structure, it is Yang to the liquid or the steam.. Yin and Yang are interchangable according to the situation..

One of my first lessons with Dr. Yang, he asked us, "what is Taiji"?.. after several well-reasoned replies he shook his hean no and said it is 'Mind'.. Taiji originates in the mind, which directs the forms, the understandings, and every result.. the 'secret', is to 'internalize it so well that the Taijiquan/Taiji becomes the expansion of 'mind', no longer a separate part..

Be well..

[vortex]

Ya Mu, on Nov 21 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

Your comment on sitting qigong is right on IMO. In the neigong system I teach and practice we avoid all visualization, saying it is OK to SEE and FEEL the energy but putting the visualization in there actually slows things down; it becomes finite instead of infinite.

But not sure where you are going with the moving comment. The goal is to remove the mind from the equation to make it infinite - multidimensional instead of finite - 3-dimensional.

I have found that simple rebounding is both yin and yang and beats any exercise of any kind for efficiency as far as body exercises go. Rebounding neigong is INCREDIBLE but takes quite a bit of time for the mind to get over the "but I'm jumping up and down".

So, shift from thinking to kinesthetic feeling & mind to awareness...

And here's a good comparative analysis of various forms of qigong from Dan Ferrara, who's racked up 7000 hrs of training time over 6 years now!

Quote

Systems & Methods

There are two main systems of Qigong, the closed system and the open system. The closed system emphasizes the elimination of external interference by isolating oneself from the environment. This practice focuses on the internal regulation of energy, mind and spirit. All attention is turned inwardly and all bodily senses are reduced to the minimal during the process in order to achieve greater internal focus, awareness and concentration. This type of Qigong practice requires absolute isolation from outside influence.

The open system emphasizes the universal connection between the individual and the environment and between the human internal chi and the universal external chi. This type of practice accumulates the universal chi to strengthen the person's individual Chi (life force), Jing (creative essence) and Shen (spirit) known as “The Three Treasures.” The open system also encourages the practice of Qigong throughout daily living and it stresses the importance of interaction between the person and his or her environment. Everything is connected as ONE in the open system.

Within these two systems, you also have two primary methods of training. One is the practice of stillness, while the other method incorporates movement and allows for external awareness. The closed system relies entirely on complete stillness and internal meditation, while the open system utilizes static forms or stillness as well as dynamic movement to accumulate chi. In addition, you also have two more schools of thought within these systems, one in which you consciously guide the chi through your body with your intent and one in which the chi is allowed to flow freely on its own accord.

All systems of Qigong teaching share the common goal of increasing your life force, exploring potential intelligence, and improving the overall quality of life. As a beginner, it is important to choose a suitable method according to one's own preference. Eventually, through practice of one particular form and based on a strong foundation, one will be prepared to understand and incorporate different teachings in order to progress further in Qigong.


Niikura Ki Breathing This is a unique and completely original method of energy cultivation developed by Ki Master Sensei Katsumi Niikura. The method is highly effective in its ability to improve health, develop sensitivity or energy awareness and gives the practitioner the ability to manipulate internal and external Ki very quickly. If you are interested in healing others, this is one of the best methods to learn. It combines physical movements similar to some systems of yoga and martial arts with breath and intent. The breathing method is completely unique to his method and uses the teeth to enhance the Ki. Please note that Ki is the Japanese word for Chi. The Ki Breathing Method is an incredibly powerful practice that instantly brings large amounts of Ki into your body. This type of high-powered breathing technique is important because it has enough power to break through deep emotional, physical, and energetic blockages.

BloodWashing (Xue Sui Jing Qigong) This method creates a continuous circuit or flow pattern of Chi throughout the body that follows the path of its natural flow pattern according to Traditional Chinese Medicine. It helps to enhance chi flow, improves overall circulation and strengthens the body’s network of nerves through physical and energetic stimulation. This practice is very invigorating and has many levels as you advance in your skill.

Dynamic Moving Forms (Primordial Qigong & Stirring The Waters Qigong) Both of these Qigong forms use very simple yet powerful sets of movement to tap into the energy of the four cardinal directions (East, West, South, North) and combines them with the universal energy for cultivating internal Chi. They are the most powerful Qigong forms I've found. Both are wonderful Qigong methods for those who are developing their Chi, but feel as though they need something more. Both methods are easy to learn and take only 15-minutes to perform. As you advance and become comfortable performing the form, you are taught to use colors and emotions to dramatically enhance the practice.

Shaolin Nei Jing Yi Chan Standing Qigong (Zhang Zhuang) Standing Qigong is about four thousand years old, and is used for everything from building internal strength for martial arts to self-healing, lowering blood pressure, increasing respiration and alertness, reducing stress and pain, and improving health and energy overall. The result is a high level of internal motion within the body that drives your Chi to move through its energy channels as the blood surges through your veins and arteries. Eventually you expand beyond your normal limits of endurance to a highly energized state of alert tranquility. This particular standing Qigong has a long history of effectiveness. It is believed that the sage Bodhidharma taught this practice also known as One Finger Zen to the Shaolin monks several thousand years ago. Unique among thousands of other Qigong forms, One Finger Zen promotes healing and inner strength through stillness while also manipulating the fingers and/or toes. The form is considered exceptional in that it can bring the seriously ill back to health and has even saved many near death. It can be practiced standing, sitting or even lying down, but the effectiveness of the method weakens based on these choices. Sitting is considered to be 10 times stronger than lying down and standing is considered to be 10 times stronger than sitting.

Dynamic Stands (Eternal Spring Qigong) This Qigong is a synergistic blend of Bodhidharma’s Bone Marrow Cleanse Qigong and Master Chunyi Lin’s Spring Forest Qigong. Both methods are known to promote self-healing and develop chi through gentle easy to learn arm movements while holding a fixed leg posture or stand. The method is easy to learn and becomes quite pleasurable as your awareness of chi develops. It combines the health and endurance benefits of Standing Qigong (Zhang Zhuang) with that of moving Qigong systems. It is 50% stationary and 50% dynamic.

Eight Elemental Stake Qigong This Qigong uses standing Qigong, color visualizations, healing chants and is a basic relaxation and self-healing method utilizing simple postures, Eight Directions and special sounds to transform negative emotional energy into positive vitality. This practice typically results in improved digestion, reduced internal stress, reduced insomnia and headaches, and greater vitality as the flow of Chi increases throughout the different internal organs in the body.

Martial Qigong Sets (YiJin Ching & Himm Kong) Both methods are designed to dramatically strengthen the tendon and ligament system in the body while accumulating Chi. The Himm Kong or “Power Exercises” practice also involves color visualizations and breath sounds to further refine and project the accumulated Chi.

Tai Chi Ruler Qigong This practice is a very rare system of Taoist Yoga, or Chi Kung utilizing a specially designed wooden dowel or "ruler" that was derived from the shape of the ancient Chinese sword handle. The Tai Chi Ruler is an exercise done in continuous repetition with deep, slow breathing with the ruler held between the palms on the Lao Gong point. Each exercise coordinates breath, mental and visual concentration with a basic tai chi physical pattern that shifts the body’s weight between both legs. The method is based entirely on natural principles, Tai Chi Ruler imparts both holistic fitness and integral strength training and is a complete system of Taoist style Yoga - just as Hatha, Kundalini, Raja are complete yoga systems - that integrates mind and body to purify the human spirit. Tai Chi Ruler practice imparts holistic fitness, integral strength, and substantial Chi accumulation and circulation into a single practice and is an excellent foundation for Tai Chi Chuan, Bahuazhang, Xing Yi Chuan, or any martial art, meditation or health & fitness practice." The Tai Chi Ruler aligns, stimulates and empowers the 7 major energy reservoirs, Chakras or “dan tiens”, and energy pathways or meridians of the body.

Seated Meditations (Dan Tiens, Kan & Li or Kundalini, Orbit Practice, Void, Healing, etc.) The majority of these meditation type Qigongs are for spiritual development known as enlightenment or awakening. Some are for self-healing or the distant healing of others. However, the majority of these seated Qigong methods that I have been exposed to are primarily to either prepare you for the awakening the dormant spiritual energy at the base of the spine known as Kundalini energy or to actually begin the process of activating it.

Lying down Meditation This is a method of cooling the Yang Chi energy, by accumulating Yin Chi. It is also used for third eye development, out of body experience, remote viewing and is considered to be a water meditation. Due to the fact that it is performed lying on your back, it can activate the dream centers of your brain causing you to have a lucid dream experience that can be quite strange at times. Personally, I have never had a negative experience with this Qigong, but if someone was emotionally unstable or had some type of mental disorder, I would advise against it.

[Old Man Contradiction]

steam, on Nov 20 2009, 07:59 PM, said:

s-kb4hVyhQA

I don't see the power in him that I am talking about. He seems about normal for the taiji masters of today, which don't really compare (according to Wang Xiangzhai) to the masters of older times.

durkhrod chogori, on Nov 20 2009, 11:50 PM, said:

I am going to definitively recommend you Bagua. It is a very balanced art: both internal and external go hand in hand.

Yeah, I'll ask to learn bagua from my current teacher at some point. I've done a little bit of pre-heaven palm with him, but my tai chi and xingyi forms need a lot of work, and my focus on I-Chuan is really shortening my learning curve in the 3 internal arts so I'll continue to work hard in zhan zhuang and test of power.

Stigweard, on Nov 21 2009, 04:02 AM, said:

To the OP, and reflecting some the posts, if your perception of Taiji is that it is too Yin then you have either not found a very good school or you haven't trained for long enough. Taiji balances song (looseness) and gun (tension), both must be trained. Saying that though, the initial training, well at least in my perspective, should be more song because people are conditioned to be too gun in the first place. Trying to teach intrinsic strength to a body fragmented by tensions is impossible. Also, qigong should be a perfect harmony of yin and yang.

You misread me Stigweard, my perception is that Taiji is supposed to be a balanced discipline, but that a lot of the Taiji I see is just a really watered down, easy version, of what Taiji can be.

steve f, on Nov 21 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

Most systems you will find in the West and in books, and in China, for that matter are incomplete or relatively recent and often constructed by unqualified people. You may want to investigate the modern history of QiGong in China. You will not like what you learn.
I don't believe that any (or at least many) QiGong forms were intended to be complete systems of physical, mental, and spiritual growth. The old QiGong sets that I've learned are relatively short collections of exercises. Often they are designed for a specific purpose. For example, I practice ShiBa LuoHan QiGong and it is a great set to practice very hard for martial conditioning or very soft for Qi cultivation but its best to focus on one method or the other for an extended period of time to maximize the benefits. Similarly, I practice an "ancient" Eight Brocades set that is clearly more intended for overall Qi balancing/meridian opening and so on for health.

TaiJi Quan can be a relatively complete system, provided the soft and hard elements are balanced as already mentioned. Nevertheless it is incomplete without Dao meditation and neigong practices which may or may not be an inherent part of the system being taught (usually not).

As Marble mentioned, the important thing is to balance life as a whole and you may need a variety of practices to achieve that. It may be difficult to find everything you want/need in one system. In fact, IMO - there is really no need for a system at all..... unless we believe it to be so.

I agree with you. Especially about a system not being necessary.

Right now I believe that Taiji is more consistently taught by unqualified teachers than any other of the internal martial arts. This seems to be making a lot of students naive. Not much more I can say besides hope to god you find a good teacher. Also, it's a good sign if your teacher can joke and doesn't take himself too seriously.