[Yoda]

The author of the excellent "Anatomy of Hatha Yoga" suggests that one looks at Alter's Science of Flexibility if one is an anatomy nut.

I'm thinking that my next read will be Kurtz's Scientific Stretching.

http://www.stadion.com/stretch.html

[Gigi]

>I'm thinking that my next read will be Kurtz's Scientific Stretching.


Hi!!

In my honest opinion ,The *best* book i know about this argument.
I owe my splits to it.

The DVD version is also much interesting.

have a nice (pnf) stretching and happy splits!




cheers!

[sean]

I have the video Yoda which is really good, and all the stretching superstars seem to pick that book as their favorite so it comes highly recommended. Also, Stretching and Flexibility - How to Stretch is a huge, free article packed with good info.

Gigi, are you up to full splits of any kind? If so I am bathing in jealousy. My split training has taken a back seat because the ligament on the inside of my right knee keeps getting sore and I'm afraid I'm going to hurt myself.

Sean

[Leo]

OK...so you guys are obviously WAY more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am, but I have to say that when I was younger I got a copy of "Richard Hittleman's Yoga : 28 Day Exercise Plan". Now, I have always been a particularly inflexible person, and when I looked at the pictures of what you were supposed to be doing at the end of the 28 days, I thought "yeah, sure!" But you know what? It worked! After I was able to do the final routines at the end, I stuck with it for some time, but eventually stopped. And I think even to this day I am much more flexible than I would have been - which isn't really saying much, but still it's something! And you can get it pretty cheaply on Amazon.

[sean]

No, Leo, I concur, that is an awesome awesome book and a really great way to get hooked on Yoga and move from an absolute beginner to an intermediate level in the 28 days as advertised.

[Gigi]

>http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/docs/rec/stretching/stretching_5.html]Stretching and Flexibility - >How to Stretch[/url] is a huge, free article packed with good info.

Brad Appleton's bible!

it's a mega-synthesis about stretching theories.


>Gigi, are you up to full splits of any kind? If so I am bathing in jealousy. My split training has taken a back >seat because the ligament on the inside of my right knee keeps getting sore and I'm afraid I'm going to hurt >myself.

hi sean.
Yes, i do splits.

It's not safe (for *no reasons*) to overload the ligaments!
Ligaments get usually hurted when muscles are trained to exhaustion or overstretched.
In fact a popular problem whit frontal split is overloading the inner side ligament of knee.
My two cents opinion !
(or if you prefer half cent opinion)


P.s:
bathing in jealousy = idiomatic expression ?
i translated it literally. LOL!
As you can notice i am not black belt in english.

Cheers

Leo, on Apr 2 2006, 03:58 AM, said:

when I was younger I got a copy of "Richard Hittleman's Yoga : 28 Day Exercise Plan".
[cut]...
am much more flexible than I would have been - which isn't really saying much, but still it's something! And you can get it pretty cheaply on Amazon.

Thanks for your suggetsion!

I will check it up .
I am very interested in books and theories about this matter!

Bye

[sean]

Gigi, on Apr 9 2006, 09:22 AM, said:

Ligaments get usually hurted when muscles are trained to exhaustion or overstretched.
In fact a popular problem whit frontal split is overloading the inner side ligament of knee.

Yes, this is what got me scared. I think I was reading Steve Maxwell over on Dragon Door talking about how he felt a little pain in his inner ligament on his knee but he ignored it and kept pushing and a few months later, snap. Ouch.

Quote

bathing in jealousy = idiomatic expression ?
i translated it literally. LOL!
As you can notice i am not black belt in english.

Heheh. It's not super common, but in English sometimes people say that they are "bathing in some emotion", or that they are "up to their ears in some emotion" and it means what you would think. That they are immersed in that feeling. So, translation, when I see people doing full splits, I feel like I am taking a bath in jealousy.

Speaking of Yoga anatomy, Yoda, or anyone, I was checking out this DVD Anatomy for Yoga by Paul Grilley, the guy who created Yin Yoga, a very Taoist friendly form of Hatha Yoga from what I hear. Looks like it covers mostly skeletal anatomy but it looked really good.

Cheers,
Sean

[Peregrino]

I would also like to give my highest endorsement to Thomas Kurz's stretching book and video. It's absolutely THE BEST method I've tried (and I've tried scores of them over the past twenty years). Kurz's method got me into the splits as a teenager, had me doing splits at age 30 after a layoff of a few years, and now, after another layoff, I'm getting very close again to full side and front splits at age 36.

I have had absolutely no knee problems at any time when doing splits or working towards them. Kurz's method is really comprehensive--unlike the passive stretching I did in Tae Kwon Do and yoga, his PNF stretching (based on isometric contractions--tensing the muscle in a stretched position) is excellent for stengthening connective tissue. He has a very sound outlook on joint integrity.

Kurz differs from other instructors in that he puts a high premium on strength training as the crucial complement to stretching exercises for making the fastest gains in flexibility. He advises weightless Hindu squats to begin with, along with the crucial adductor flyes for improving the strength of the inner thigh muscles that support your weight while doing the splits.

Contrary to Furey and other new fitness gurus, Kurz does advocate a serious (free-) weight training regime once your body has adapted to previous training. (He's very methodical about training incrementally and measuring results so you know when you're ready for heavier weight training). He's big on squats (which he claims actually strengthen the knee ligaments--at least for those who have no impeding condition--and I can verify this from personal experience). Deadlifts (again, after you reach a pre-determined level of aptitude in bodyweight exercises like lumbar extensions) are also high on his list.

The single greatest addition to my regime which has helped me rapidly advance towards the splits at age 36 would be the adductor cable pull-downs (again, to be performed after reaching the adequate level of adductor strength via flyes). He demonstrates these in the video. Besides making the drop down into a split position flow far more gracefully, the increased inner thigh strength definitely comes in useful for kicking, grappling and . . . other physical activities!

So, why does Kurz claim that strength training, in addition to the obviously expected benefits (increasing your strength!) will also help you improve flexibility faster than via yoga or other methods? Simple answer: stronger muscles (e.g. hamstrings, inner thighs) exert themselves less when bearing weight (e.g. in a splits position), and therefore provide less tension when you go into a deep stretch. They also recover more quickly from (properly designed) workouts than unconditioned muscles.

He goes into much more detail in _Stretching Scientifically_ (4th ed.), which unfortunately I don't have at hand at the moment to quote from . . . But to sum up, let me just re-iterate that IT WORKS BETTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE OUT THERE! His training advice and programs for other aspects of fitness are great too!

PS
Forgot to add that Kurz differs from other instructors as well in that he also promotes dynamic flexibility exercises as a warm-up AND as an early morining routine to train the nervous system so that you can have dynamic flexibility (e.g. the ability to perform high kicks or drop into a split) without any warm-up . . . I have to say from experience that THIS WORKS TOO!

[cloud recluse]

sean, on Apr 10 2006, 02:46 AM, said:

Speaking of Yoga anatomy, Yoda, or anyone, I was checking out this DVD Anatomy for Yoga by Paul Grilley, the guy who created Yin Yoga, a very Taoist friendly form of Hatha Yoga from what I hear...

Cheers,
Sean

Have only just spotted YIN YOGA dvd at a local bookstore.Is anyone experienced with it?Its a bit pricey for me to buy on impulse,but if its accesible to a somewhat inflexible beginner Id certainly give it a go. Regards,Cloud.

[sean]

Peregrino, awesome review of Kurz's material!

cloud_recluse, I've only heard positive things about Yin Yoga. There is also a guy on here named irkk that I know has some experience with it.


Sean

[irkk]

If you want to get into yin yoga you can check out the thread Sean posted. To get an actual training program I would recommend getting either Paul Grilley Yin Yoga DVD or Sarah Powers DVD from pranamaya.
There is another Yin Yoga DVD by Sarah Powers avaiable from her website.
But there is some overlap between the Sarah Powers DVD from pranayama and the DVD from her website.

I continue to get a lot of benefit from my Yin Yoga practice.
The best thing about it is that the Yin practice helps to connect my different practices.
That is especially true for Sarah Powers Insight Yoga DVD from pranamaya.
She teaches an interesting breathing method with roots in Ashtanga that emphasizes harmonizing fire and water (Kan & Li) and Prana and Apana.
Then there is her focus on the different meridians and organs and the bridge to vipassana meditation.

The connection to Scott Sonnon`s Yang Yoga is obvious.

You see, Yin Yoga can deepen the connection between different practices and help to create a cumalative effect.

But there is a caveat for beginners using Sarah Powers DVDs. Paul Grilley emphasizes that it is really the lower body that has to be kept still in the Yin style, whereas you can and should move your upper body during the practice, especially your neck.

This is really important and is not really emphasized that much on the Powers DVDs .
If you have areas of tension in the upper body or neck and hold the posture for five minutes (especially Seal posture) you are setting yourself up for trouble.

I speak from experience.

Try to get rid of as much upper body tension before your Yin session as you can and move your neck as necessary when you hold your Yin posture.

Scott Sonnons material was a great help for me here.


Speaking of him, I really like his Yang Yoga, Flow Fit etc. but keep noticing that most exercices where presented in the original zdorovye videos with a lot more explanation.

I hope that Scott someday brings out his zdorovye on DVD or even a new version of it.
I really like the way he explains the things in the original video set and feel this is somewhat lacking from his DVDs, but they are still very good.

[DanC]

Yin Yoga looks good, but does anyone know of any other books that outline a Taoist Yoga or Qigong
Stretching routine, I have Master Ni's Tao Yin book but it wasn't entirely focused on stretching.
Im looking for a stretching book from a traditional Taoist perspective, so far Im unable to find
anything.

[cloud recluse]

irkk, on Apr 15 2006, 04:29 AM, said:

.... Yin Yoga can deepen the connection between different practices and help to create a cumalative effect.

Thats it,Im sold Especially as one of my housemates has volunteered to go halves in the price The more Yang approach I felt in Iyengar is not what I really want from a yoga routine per se,& Im a sucker for (almost) anything labelling itself Daoist.Big thanx Sean & Irkk for the feedback Regards,Cloud.

[DanC]

I know it doesnt really matter as long as it works, but is Yin Yoga really a Taoist practice, Im a
sucker for anything that is traditional.

Daniel

[irkk]

DanC, on Apr 15 2006, 06:38 AM, said:

I know it doesnt really matter as long as it works, but is Yin Yoga really a Taoist practice, Im a
sucker for anything that is traditional.

Daniel

Paul Grilley was taught by Paulie Zink, who is a master of monkey Kung Fu. Taoist Yoga is part of this Kung Fu style because of the enormous amount of flexibility this style requires.
Paulie Zink and his style are very traditional, so if you want pure taoist yoga, without any Indian or Japanese additions, I would try to get some of Paulie Zink`s Taoist Yoga tapes.
There is one tape avaiable from Unique Publication but I would not recommend it if you are a beginner. The material is too much for a newbie.
But on the other side it contains some nice, doable 5 elements ecercices.
At the moment I am in the process of building my practice up, so that I can practice this program regularly.

Then there is another video of Paulie Zink from Panther Productions. I do not own it, but I was told that it is even more advanced and far beyond my abilities at the moment.


The last option is to get the new Taoist Yoga series (that`s what I will do next month or so)
from pauliezink.com.

He states that his Taoist Yoga is the origin of Yin Yoga on his page.
So if you want the purest, most Taoist approach to Yoga I would recommend getting Paulie Zink`s new DVD series.

This post has been edited by irkk: 16 April 2006 - 01:52 PM

[DanC]

Well the Zink material looks way over complicated for me, the Yin Yoga books may be the best for me
to start with, could yin yoga be incorporated with other taoist meditations and practices.

[sean]

I'm sold too! Thanks for the great overview, irkk. I was finally motivated to pick up the Yin Yoga book on Friday and did a nice long session, touching on several of the poses for 3-5 minutes each. Really really diggin it. As long as I've been doing Yoga, I never systematically explored taking various asanas into deep stilllness like this. I could really really feel energy flowing back and forth between the meridians of my body and finally opening into emptiness, which I usually associate mostly with seated postures only. Opens up a whole new world. The book itself is really elegant and straightforward. One of those rare balances of not too much or too little. And only like $11. This is a keeper practice for sure.

Sean

[Ian]

If you folks enjoy a good stretch, then I would include Dirk Oellibrandt's Meridian Chi Kung in your considerations.

It addresses physical and energetic (and more, probably) together. There are beginner and advanced moves for each organ pair. Opening, then power, then integration.

And they're well stretchy. Some of them you just gottta do it as your range allows because if you try to copy him you'll laugh and fall over. But you guys sound like you're way strectchier than me already, so it might be a challenge.

And the DVD is much better than the video was.

Advert over. Please return to your Easter and act natural.

[DanC]

Im also ordering Yin Yoga tommorow, the idea of holding postures for 5 minutes just sounds amazing,
when I did Kempo as a teenager we often did stretches for upto ten minutes, this has an amazing effect on
the bodys chi flow.