[Smile]

I was exploring Derren Brown's videos on Youtube and found this:
Derren Brown Kung Fu Punch

He has a lot of interesting skills... like THIS

[Smile]

Derren Brown "instant conversion" part 1
Derren Brown "instant conversion" part 2

[freeform]

Derren Brown uses a mixture of NLP, Hypnosis, slight of hand and good old, standard magic to perform his feats...

Everything he does can be taught relatively quickly - ofcourse building the skill to do it smoothly takes a lot longer.

There is one trick he does where he's in a taxi asking to go to a famous London landmark - when they're near he makes the driver not notice where the landmark is (even though the taxi is right outside the landmark)... This is known as 'negative hallucination' in the hypnosis world - nearly everyone has experienced this effect (ever looked for your keys/glasses/pepper grinder while it's right under your nose?!)

He does not use any 'chi power' - even though quite a few of his tricks are similar to chi power tricks people do (the one inch punch being one of them)...

anyhoo - something to think about...

[cat]

NLP often seems like 'magic'. It intrigues me. Does anyone know a good NLP book ? ( wide brief, I realise...)

[MASTERforge]

cat, on Nov 3 2006, 11:07 PM, said:

NLP often seems like 'magic'. It intrigues me. Does anyone know a good NLP book ? ( wide brief, I realise...)

The user's manual for the brain volume 1 & 2 by L Michael Hall Phd and Bob G Bodenhamer DMin.

This is about as comprehensive as it gets. Quite heavy reading but its all there and not watered down. The problem with NLP is that the jury is still out on it. Some people think its a valid science while others think its pseudoscience.

NLP is a mix of hypnosis, linguistics and a few other tools. Used to improve communication in business, life coaching and similar subjects. You will learn how to communicate more effectively by inderstanding how people interpret communication. There are topics on body language, changing the way you think to improve results in your life etc.

It can be quite an interesting read and I have used some of the skills to help me in life and they have given results. For example I have used relaxation techniques for job interviews and also body language techniques to gain rapport with the interviewer.

The problem with NLP is it tries to give definitive answers to complex problems. For example if a person speaks a certain way it advises to use similar words to gain rapport and friendship. This is called mirroring. Communication is so complex that it is almost impossible to give a set of rules that will create rapport. This is magnified with cross cultural differences.

My opinion is that if you buy the books they are an interesting read and if you apply the techniques then you may find positive changes in your life. To gain the skills of derren brown mean mastership of NLP and many other subjects. The question you have to ask yourself is, it it worth the effort to do neat tricks?

I would recommend learning about NLP but dont expect to gain any funky skills like Derren Brown

[freeform]

MASTERforge, on Nov 4 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

The user's manual for the brain volume 1 & 2 by L Michael Hall Phd and Bob G Bodenhamer DMin.

That's a thorough recomendation - but it's not for everyone - Michael Hall is very 'auditory digital' (wordy) in his presentations, and this might not be what you like... The best thing to do is to get a training, or go to an introductory weekend or a cheap nlp practice gathering.

book-wise, I always recomend to beginners Joseph O'connors Introducing NLP. It's a great introduction - relatively simple but has enough to wow anyone actually using what's in there.

[thaddeus]

freeform, on Nov 3 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

There is one trick he does where he's in a taxi asking to go to a famous London landmark - when they're near he makes the driver not notice where the landmark is (even though the taxi is right outside the landmark)... This is known as 'negative hallucination' in the hypnosis world - nearly everyone has experienced this effect (ever looked for your keys/glasses/pepper grinder while it's right under your nose?!)

What causes a person to do this? How does he do it? I'm guessing that we probably have stored the location of things (maps) in a certain part of our brain. Then if you ask someone to do something like recall something when they were 6 years old, it might divert attention from the landmark. Would be cool if things worked that way, do you have any insight into how he might do it other than a willing accomplice?
T

[freeform]

thaddeus, on Nov 6 2006, 02:27 PM, said:

What causes a person to do this? How does he do it? I'm guessing that we probably have stored the location of things (maps) in a certain part of our brain. Then if you ask someone to do something like recall something when they were 6 years old, it might divert attention from the landmark. Would be cool if things worked that way, do you have any insight into how he might do it other than a willing accomplice?
T

How it works in the brain no one really knows... physical location of memories in the brain is not very likely (imo)... but that doesn't really matter...

I'm not sure what you mean with 'a willing accomplice' - the taxi driver is willing to drive the guy and talk to him, but he doesn't know that Derren is messing with him... The way Derren does this is by using what's known as a 'pattern interrupt' - when we do things automatically we have a beggining, middle and an end - you pick up a glass, drink and put the glass down... to shake someone's hand you push your hand out grab the other's hand, shake and then disengage... This is the same with internal behaviours (thoughts) - someone asks you a question, you go inside and find an answer, then speak...

So if at any time the pattern is interrupted, there is a very short moment where the person is in a confused state that's perfect for hypnosis... So, I'm not sure if the clip is available on youtube, but Derren asks the driver a question, then before the guy answers he hits his hand on the glass seperating passenger from driver and says something 'normal'...

If you're mean, you can try it on your friends - ask them the name of that song they love, and just as they're 'going inside' to find the info bring them back outside by making a noise, asking them a question or in some way distracting them, then quickly tell them the name of another song.... ask em again to remember their favourite song and it's quite likely they'll have that 'oh it's on the tip of my tongue' thing.

[forestofsouls]

freeform, on Nov 6 2006, 07:50 AM, said:

How it works in the brain no one really knows... physical location of memories in the brain is not very likely (imo)... but that doesn't really matter...

I'm not sure what you mean with 'a willing accomplice' - the taxi driver is willing to drive the guy and talk to him, but he doesn't know that Derren is messing with him...

I've watched some of these Derren Brown videos. First off, I would admit that they're fun and entertaining. But a lot of the people he "suggests" things too strike me as though they are acting. I think the magic of Derren Brown is that he creates a suggestibility in his audience by using a scheme that appears to have some basis (NLP), camera shots/settings that borrow from the "reality TV" genre, and creating a credible illusion that he is altering people's minds. The audience, confronted with these things, buys into what he's doing is real, as opposed to elaborate set-ups. Having some one who pretends they're a regular guy is one of the oldest cons in the book.

[freeform]

forestofsouls, on Nov 6 2006, 06:11 PM, said:

I've watched some of these Derren Brown videos. First off, I would admit that they're fun and entertaining. But a lot of the people he "suggests" things too strike me as though they are acting. I think the magic of Derren Brown is that he creates a suggestibility in his audience by using a scheme that appears to have some basis (NLP), camera shots/settings that borrow from the "reality TV" genre, and creating a credible illusion that he is altering people's minds. The audience, confronted with these things, buys into what he's doing is real, as opposed to elaborate set-ups. Having some one who pretends they're a regular guy is one of the oldest cons in the book.

Well - at the start of his shows he always states that he doesn't use stand-ins or shills... he may just be plain lying, but I reckon it's true... I've known a couple of people that went to his live show - some of them even got picked to be demonstration subjects - what he does do is when he works with an audience (and I suspect also on the street) he screens for the most suggestible people he can. He does something, then sees who reacts - half the audience will react favourably (to him) he keeps them, then does something else and half of those will react 'correctly etc - untill he's left with a couple of very suggestible and easily hypnotised people (all stage hypnotists do this to a certain extent)...

The other thing is when I saw my first '15 minute phobia cure' (which actually only took 10 minutes lol) which is a standard NLP drill to get rid of any phobia in almost any one in uder 15 minutes... So this lady was telling the group how she's been to a number of psychotherapists several times a week for over 12 years ( ) trying to cure her hight phobia - (she would have very drastic panic attacks where she would black out and go into a rage/shock)

so the group went outside next to a tall ancient wall - right outside the trainer did the drill and then we all went up onto the wall... it was very difficult to believe that she really was telling the truth before because she seemed fine looking down over the edge...

I've seen many more strange things like this and over time you get used to the fact that people really can make a huge, drastic change very quickly...

Who says that 'who we are' is not just a pretense anyway - we're all pretending to be something or other arent we?

[forestofsouls]

I went to see a stage magician once in college. The first thing he asked were for people who has already been hypnotized on stage before. Of all the people on stage (some of them left, and he said "They weren't deep enough"), one seemed authentically hypnotized and the rest were "hamming it up". Being in front of a lot of people is either energizing or terrifying, and I suspect that playing along with the hypnotist is a good outlet for either.

I don't know a lot about NLP, but some of their stuff makes sense. For instance, they suggest if you want some one to have a favorable memory of you, you have them recall and tell you about a pleasent time they had. Then they'll associate that emotion with you.

But I also know, after studying the workings of my own mind for a few years, that any change is hard, especially a drastic change. My mind and body are creatures of habit, and wish to follow the patterns already carved into them (i.e. "skandhas"). It gets to the point where the body/mind can operate without any attention (like when we're on autopilot going to work), which is why a lot of people in my opinion can drift through life on a low level of attention.

What I've seen is that our habits are formed by repetition. If you think/act/feel in a similar away over and over again you create a pattern in yourself. The solution is also reptition, repeated efforts. This comes home when one attempts sitting meditation: at first, the mind careens about as is its habit. The solution is to return time and again to one's mental anchor. Over time, you can develop concentration.

I'm skeptical of sudden changes--- they usually precede an inevitable backslide.

Regarding the woman: how do you know she wasn't an NLP plant, put in to promote a catharsis in others?

This post has been edited by forestofsouls: 06 November 2006 - 11:45 AM

[Smile]

freeform, on Nov 6 2006, 03:50 PM, said:

If you're mean, you can try it on your friends - ask them the name of that song they love, and just as they're 'going inside' to find the info bring them back outside by making a noise, asking them a question or in some way distracting them, then quickly tell them the name of another song.... ask em again to remember their favourite song and it's quite likely they'll have that 'oh it's on the tip of my tongue' thing.

Yes, you can see that in his other video "Derren Brown at the Dog Track"

The most impressive thing I've seen with him wass his show The Heist where he brain-washes normal businesmen to become real bank robbers.