En*light*enment

[Stigweard]

[Starjumper]

Here's one way of looking at it. Traditional Eastern paintings of enlightened masters depicts them with a big aura.

 

A big aura results from having a lot of chi (chi power)

 

so, drink your Lotsachiade and you too can glow in the dark.

Edited January 9, 2008 by Starjumper7

[Stigweard]

[steve]

This is an entertaining and interesting line of inquiry.

A question that occurs to me is the following:

Does this definition imply that the the luminous energy was absent prior to "enlightenment"?

Is enlightenment the process of causing someone to have a different energy, more energy, or energy that was not already there?

Is it possible that it is simply the process of causing one to be aware or sensitive to the luminous energy that already exists?

Does the "light" portion of it refer to adding luminous energy or creating illumination (which of course involves luminous energy if you think of the idea of turning a light on the subject)?

Do we really change substantially and fundamentally in terms of our energy makeup with enlightenment or is it more a matter of perspective?

 

Certainly the Daoist alchemical method puts a lot of value on the cultivation of qi and it's transformation to shen and void as a method of achieving something. Other traditions don't really have the same approach to the process.

 

Some Buddhist traditions consider that enlightenement is, or at least may be, more of an instantaneous transformation. To me this seems to imply more of an illumination. In many traditions the concept is more one of: you are already it, there's no where to go and nothing to gain because you are already there, there's no real change involved. It's more like lifting the veil of conditioning.

 

Perhaps it takes a certain amount of energy to lift that veil. To be able to illuminate that which is hidden. Maybe that's what cultivating the qi allows us to do. On the other hand, perhaps, like in the Zen approach, the method is simply a way of taking the student to the furthest possible extremes of folly so that they finally feel that they're paid enough of a price to drop the facade.

 

I don't really know any answers nor do I think language can ever really capture the essence of the thing, but I certainly seem to enjoy the questions.

 

My own experience has included the gradual work of Daoist methods to concentrate and transform qi. On the other hand, there have been episodes of instantaneous and dramatic insight which seemed like more of an illumination.

 

Nice post, SS.

Edited January 9, 2008 by xuesheng

[Trunk]

alchemicaltaoism.com,

Extraordinary Vessels,

Core Vessel.

 

[Stigweard]

[mantis]

what is so mind boggling about this

 

enlightenment is when your subconscious mind becomes the conscious mind

 

in other words, you see without your mind

[xenolith]

what is so mind boggling about this

 

enlightenment is when your subconscious mind becomes the conscious mind

 

in other words, you see without your mind

And so there is no mind to be boggled.

[Gerard]

[Stigweard]

[Stigweard]

Edited January 10, 2008 by Sifu Stigweard

[steve]

 

Enlightenment can only be accomplished by following Buddha's path.

 

I humbly disagree...

[xenolith]

I humbly disagree...

I humbly agree (with you).

 

So simple is the path walked yet not so when described. Amusing that.

 

Suggest just walk it.

Edited January 10, 2008 by xenolith

[Mal]

So simple is the path walked yet not so when described.

 

Nice 1

[steve]

 

So simple is the path walked yet not so when described. Amusing that.

 

Suggest just walk it.

Very nicely said

[Starjumper]

My practice results in short circuiting of the sympathetic nervous system which cuts off the cerebral cortex from experiential awareness leaving only the cerebellum to inform awareness. Because all of the conditioning/learning that one experiences from the time they are born is housed in the cerebral cortex, the experience of awareness in the absence of this quite profound. Simply put, it's the experience of awareness of one's self in the absence of one's ego, something long considered the definition of enlightenment, and which, based on my experience of said agree with. So, yes, because of my repeated experience of this awareness, I consider myself enlightened. I fail, often in fact, to live in accordance with that understanding. So there is the act of enlightenment and the practice of being enlightened. I've experienced the former...several times. And I succeed at the latter sometimes, fail at others. I hope I've answered your questions.

 

I took this from the 'bogus' thread.

 

It is true that an enlightenment experience is a special event that can last quite awhile while 'acting' enlightened is something different.

 

Xeno, I want to ask you, did you experience this condition during your meditation or was it a spontaneous surprise occurrence? Did it include feelings of bliss? An enlightenment experience (normally the first one) results in something called raincloud samadhi where all knowledge becomes available to you as if in a big raincloud burst, did you experience this after you came out of it? Did the experience initiate an alchemical process of change for you, which I will call the road to Te?

 

If you experienced these things then it was a true enlightenment experience, which is one of the early steps on the path of the immortal.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Starjumper7

[AugustLeo]

.

[Wayfarer64]

I'm of the opinion that we become "realized beings" or beings of original spirit, that may occure with light in the mind or not...But I sense that it is from within that awakening happens.. as in we come to realize what it is that is real and what is illusion...

 

Spirits living in a matterial world as it were...

 

And I can not believe that Buddha's is the only path to reach such states of being. That would be like saying Earth is the only planet possible of sustaining intelligent life - It just does not make any sense to me, as the possibilities for life and becoming realized need to be numerous and various or life/spirit would just not continue on......

 

-Pat

[Gerard]

Example of a Westerner who reached enlightenment in 1936:

 

http://www.om-guru.com/html/saints/wolff.html

 

I believe enlightenment can be attained at different levels. It's just a matter of escaping the gravitational pull of Samsara.

[Starjumper]

This is an entertaining and interesting line of inquiry.

A question that occurs to me is the following:

Does this definition imply that the the luminous energy was absent prior to "enlightenment"?

Is enlightenment the process of causing someone to have a different energy, more energy, or energy that was not already there?

Is it possible that it is simply the process of causing one to be aware or sensitive to the luminous energy that already exists?

Does the "light" portion of it refer to adding luminous energy or creating illumination (which of course involves luminous energy if you think of the idea of turning a light on the subject)?

Do we really change substantially and fundamentally in terms of our energy makeup with enlightenment or is it more a matter of perspective?

 

Certainly the Daoist alchemical method puts a lot of value on the cultivation of qi and it's transformation to shen and void as a method of achieving something. Other traditions don't really have the same approach to the process

 

The way I think about it is like this: When you gain more chi power it makes your aura bigger, and as you are able to tolerate more energy in your head (more on that later) the aura around your head becomes bigger and brighter. So to someone who can see auras it might look like this.

 

 

Having more chi in your head makes you smarter, in a way, in a way. Having more chi in your head also makes you more emotional. Having more chi in your head can also make you crazy. So that begs the question: how much chi can you cultivate in your head and still act normal? ...and another question, who cares about acting normal anyway? I do, sometimes. Being well grounded, which is what the Taoist practices provide well that others don't, can allow you to cultivate more energy in your head without going too crazy.

 

As the energy field of your head extends out further then your awareness or sensing ability also increases.

 

So here you end up with someone who is smart, psychic, highly emotional, and a little bit crazy, which is why it is said that the sage is like a child. Their emotions are right on the surface and they are bright and strong emotions. They react strongly to things, overreact, possibly too. Luckily one of the dominant emotions is joy, but whether the emotion is good or bad, some sages will be able to hide them if they wish, if they are around strangers.

 

In my system we do a lot of exercises that make the energy field around the head very large and bright, and we work on making the 'reach' of the energy beam that goes out the top of the head go far and wide. We also work on extending the reach of the third eye so it goes many feet in front of us.

 

There is another aspect to chi cultivation which isn't shown in the above picture, and that is that in Taoism we also cultivate a lot of chi power in our bodies, it isn't all head focused. You build up a lot of chi power in your body and then that makes more chi available to send to your head. It also gives you a hair trigger explosive potential.

 

More on that later.

 

So is having a big aura around your head mean you have been enlightened? I don't think it is a direct correlation but they do seem to go hand in hand.

[seadog]

There is no such thing.

Give up the idea 'enlightenment' and let it float away.

Really seeing means there is really nothing to see

This is called the omnipotent view.

There is no marvellous object to see,nothing to be heard

all definitions blow away.

An absolute reality to be considered a higher dimesion

does not exist.

Why fix your aspiration on a mirage?

What is there beyond the equality of natural condition?

Everything is already perfect and complete.

[Spectrum]

undonions

lay haeirs

now get

back to

whork

yule

get

in

it

.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Spectrum

[Taiji Bum]

Bump for Starjumper!

[exorcist_1699]

Without certain level of enlightenment, our qi 's quality can't be high and delicate; they are related. So, Taoist and Buddhist practice is quite the same at certain stage/ level . Saying that they are different is a quite common , sectarian view from some Buddhists. And, these guys do not really know Taoism ; in fact, sorry to say that , they don't really know their own Buddhist practice either .

 

In reality, Enlightenment also gives us power , this is the reason why it is said to be a panacea for all sufferings ;

 

The only condition for you to get it is your being tough enough to bear the dullness of drilling into the emptiness.

Edited January 14, 2009 by exorcist_1699

[Lightbringer]

It strikes me that a few people here may have issues with universal abundance. The universe always provides as much energy as you need (and everything else: money, friends, love, attention, karma. j/k, they're all manifestations of energy! ). Trying to "get more chi" is just as hopeless as trying to get more money to achieve happiness or satisfaction. Let alone enlightenment. You get money when you either direct all your energy into making it (a tiring process any workoholic will tell you) or when you stop trying and let it come to you as you need it. Same goes for chi. The question is whether you turn away the universe's gifts because you're too focused on your money or chi to see them. The universe could toss energy at you every minute of every day (and it does), and you would simply avoid it.

 

There's a great story I heard about a man who trekked around the world looking seeking God's divine light. He meditated in caves, spoke with shaman and fasted for months. Finally, he heard of a mountain which reached high above the clouds where God would grant you a single wish. Persistent as he was (since a mountainous journey to any wish must of course be trying), he reached the top. He threw open his arms and yelled to the heavens "God! Fill me with your Divine Light!" A voice boomed around him:

 

"I'm always filling you, but you keep leaking!"

 

As for my second point: I have another way of looking at enlightenment than many of you it seems, so I'll briefly describe it here. It's sort of Chinese medicine/Buddhist/Hindu.

 

Anyways, enlightenment is when one's karma in the lower 3 chakras are resolved entirely and one can live with compassion. This could not happen before because the meridians of the body and the many smaller nadis have blockages both energetic and physical. These were thus wasting and redirecting your energy in turbulent ways away from the orderly function of the chakras. Swirling vortices of energy need momentum, they don't just spin for the heck of it! So a certain level of "flow" to the correct regions of the body must take place. I mentioned physical blockages before and if you've ever pinched a tiny piece of muscle and felt it, then you know what this is. It's a bump of sorts, as though the muscle is broken into tiny pieces when pressure is applied. Tension and inflexibility (strangely, these words mean as much in the mental sense as the physical ) block energy. This is a manifestation of karma: emotional, mental and physical issues to be resolved in the body's structure.

 

I'll add more should anyone have questions as to what the hell I'm talking about (though you are a bright group of chaps, I notice refreshingly) but it's getting late. Oh, and in case anyone is wondering either of these two things: It's hard to find a person who is enlightened not because it's ultra-rare, but because once it's achieved, the soul moves on to resolve more subtle karma on astral and causal planes. Second, ascension is when one resolves ALL of their karma while still bound by a human body. The person then essentially becomes "pure God" (does he come in "watered down" and "sort of murky" varieties as well?) uplifting the very energy his molecules are made of with him. Think Jesus if you believe that particular event happened.