Hi all,
I've asked this question before in a different way regarding replenishing jing after sexual or other stressfull activities. But I guess another way to ask this question is 'have you found any strategies to reduce the refractory time?'
For me I can't quite find that combination of sleep/food/breathing/supplements that seems to nail it (no pun intended).
I also noticed after an extended session of bedroom battle, after a while i feel I can no longer control it. Other than take a break for an hour or so, has anyone found a way to reduce the time to climax after doing the updraws for a couple hours?
Thaddeus

It's just a long learning curve. I'll certainly leave the right books out on the coffee table for my kids.

Aside from alternating to oral sex, Plato's recent webpage brought up an interesting point about the importance of staying soft for better energy flow. That's something new for me to consider.

Well, I just ejaculated (after a few months of retention), so I'm feeling drained, elated, and a bit like discussing this topic.

First, I'm not sure i understood the original question, but you have to remember something -- the cock and everything around it involves musculature. Even the things that controls the valves that put blood in or out of the penis can be seen as muscle.

So, you go to the gym and bench press 20 times and then can’t do the 21st rep. You strain and strain and then get it partially up in the air with your arms shaking and then you drop it. So what’s the problem? Are your shen and po at war? Have you lost control of your jing? Have you done the big draw improperly?

YOU’RE FUCKING EXHAUSTED, that’s what. More accurately, you’re muscles are overworked and are momentarily weak and unable to function properly.

Same thing happens to your cock. I fucked for quite a while tonight. Stopped for about ten minutes, and fucked for quite a while some more. Stopped again. THEN, TEMPTING FATE, I got a blow job and came before I was barely hard.

So what happened? My cock was exhausted, that’s what. It was overworked, had become momentarily weak, and was unable to function properly. No amount of “training” or “supplements” would have changed that. If I’d really been a smart athlete -- and a good daoist -- I’d have stopped and rested my muscles till morning. But I’m a stupid westerner who gets a little taste of retention and thinks he’s a sex god, so that’s what I get. (“You came A LOT” she said. Darlin’ you have no idea).

I haven’t read Plato’s latest missive (where is it?) but I want to point out a few things which may relate to it.

First, Plato’s been for a long time a acolyte of Dr. Lin, who preaches that your cock should be rock hard and swelled to enormous proportions before engaging in intercourse. I’ve had fights with Plato and others about this. My position is that Lin’s methods are pretty much like a cock ring, they swell your cock so you feel less (and thus keep control) but they also keeps all the energy there at your cock. Some of the daoist texts argue that you should “enter soft and exit hard” – a position ridiculed by Lin and his followers but one that has a lot of merit.

To put it another way, during long intercourse you’re cock will naturally get harder and softer. This isn’t something to fight against, it’s something to embrace. It’s when it’s NOT rock hard that you have the best chance of doing the draw in such a way as to really pull energy (hers and yours) away from the cock and up.

None of this by the way is new ground. It’s all in Multi Orgasmic Man.

OK, I’m off to soak my balls. Oh, about refractory periods and getting jing back. I don’t know. I’ve been playing around with bee pollen. Think it might help but I’m not sure.

Here is some Soap to wash your mouth out with...

By the way, the bee pollen seems to be good at replenishing sexual energy -- or perhaps just energy of any kind.

yeah...gotta admit you were talkin' like the ol' legendary RJ in a PG13 version.

Why? Because I said cock and fuck? And how on earth could RJ ever be translated into PG13?

OK, whatever. Sorry if I offended anyone with my language. You have to remember I had just come (uh, I mean I had just experienced ejaculatory release) and was a bit unfocused. But again, if if was too profane, sorry.

I think the substance of the post has merit though.

I liked your post spyrelx. Good content and it cracked me up. And Daotaichi, your follow up made me laugh out loud as well. No words of wisdom from me on retention, but I take this and it covers a lot of bases ... has royal jelly, bee pollen, bee propolis, ginseng in a base of raw honey.

Sean.

Sean
Kudos from one deep in the industry.

That royal jelly product is the BEST out there. Fresh and yummy. Almost too powerful from my recollection. Haven't had any since I've left California. Maybe I 'll try to hunt it down around here. You can probably buy it at your local health food store in Berkeley or thereabouts.

It's probably not available mail order though is it?

I recommend regular use of Tribulus terrestris. Hard to recommend a brand, but Dragonherbs sells a Tribulus powder which is OK if you take alot of it. I like good quality extract standardized to Protodioscin content, but that is something I can only get through my connections in the industry, I don't even know a finished product which I would trust. But if you are willing to throw a little bit of money around Tribulus is really good. You Tao Boys should be able to notice the difference when you take it. I sure can. Another one I used to be skeptical about was MACA. If you get good quality maca which should have a rich nutty smell and take a gram or more at a time it has a nice boosting effect also. This is good for women's hormonal health as well...allegedly, cannot say from experience, being a guy.

bye

Craig

I Used to take that royal bee stuff. I had a really nice ceramic spoon I'd use just for it. Then the spoon broke and it went the way of so many supplements, long forgotten.

Michael

Craig, what does the tribulus stuff do? Is it to increase jing, energy, an adaptogen? Is it chinese? I've never heard of it.

Also what do you think of Plato's jing trilogy: He shou wu, Huang Jing and wolfberries?

He's also big on Rou Chong Rong "for extra sexual effects"?

Thanks

Craig, what does the tribulus stuff do? Is it to increase jing, energy, an adaptogen? Is it chinese? I've never heard of it.

Tribulus was originally from Bulgaria and a secret weapon of their strength training/powerlifting people. Works on hormonal axis. Supplies raw material for testosterone production. Helps promote more Leutinizing hormone which is a precursor buliding block of testosterone. I used to use it before doing hard tournament style Taekwondo training and it promoted that kind of aggressive energy very well. Sometimes too well! THe best extract is German or Bulgarian. I think you can still find Tribestan on the web, which is a brand from Bulgaria (Sopharma). This is good stuff.
I will not attempt to characterize it's Chinese energetic properties, not my speciality.

Also what do you think of Plato's jing trilogy: He shou wu, Huang Jing and wolfberries?
I like wolfberries and definitely like He shou wu, although I am not sure it is as almighty as Plato makes it out to be. Huang Jing is outside my personal experience.

Go to a chinese pharmacist and buy some in bulk, should be pretty affordable in traditional form. Nothing like going for it yourself to get your own proof instead of bandying about on different folks opinions. Which is why I stick to what I have experienced.

He's also big on Rou Chong Rong "for extra sexual effects"?
Dont know this one either.

Thanks

[/quote]

Craig, thanks very much. I appreciate it.

Yup, I agree.

My experience after 18 odd years of retaining off and on is that you got to Really not desire ejaculation on All levels of your self.

Once you reach that stage you can have as much sex as you and or your partner could want and retention is effortless.

Ejaculation was the ever present, irresistible Siren for me up until i found the Siren that was even more irresistible..... nonduality

When i retained, i found i could go deeper and deeper into nonduality

In that state the bliss is way more deeper, longer lasting and satisfying than ejaculation- and that made it sooo much easier to retain. The pleasure of ejaculation became an easy sacrifice to make to achieve that deep state instead.

The other thing that happened over time was that during sex i got more in tune with my prostate (no i don't use an aneros, just my mind ). It's fluttering that i would feel during sex resulted in 'dry' contractions that felt really good. This feeling also helped to lessen my natural desire to ejaculate.

Thanks Spyrelx for sharing your story, it reminded me of my many releases over the years

If you don't mind my answering, Huang Jing is also called solomon seal. Supposed to be a restorative, 'scholar warrior' mentions making a tonic wine out of it.
Rou Chong Rong is also called 'cistanches'. Ron Teeguarden pointed out (and I verified it), it's probably the common denominator ingredient in all ancient chinese schlong enlargement herbal formulas. I think it works on the plumbing similar to V*iagra. Kidney tonic. But not known as a libido enhancer.
I'll try out the jing trilogy and report back results.
thaddeus