Hello I'm new here, and so far these forums are very interesting.

I have experimented briefly with energy before. I have read Mantak Chia's book for female sexual energy and I found it a bit too much for me to understand (my previous experience is in ecletic witchcraft).

Anyway, I'm really interested in people's actual experiences when it comes to having heart/brow/crown orgasms since a lot of books have no author in-put like this. What do you do? How does it feel like for you?

I'm sure I had some kind of powerful heart chakra experience when I was 14. I thought I had a heart problem at the time considering my heart was absoloutly pounding so hard in my chest at an impossible rate. I felt like energy expanded from my chest right to my head and down to my toes. Like I was a balloon being blown up. I thought I would explode with energy -it was so intense and breath-taking, but I wasn't scared.

I've read that these sensations (and more can be experienced during sex). Has anyone got some simple chakra/energy excersises for me to do to help these along? I'm female).

Also can anyone recomend a good heart chakra clearing/activating excersise. Anyone who read the 'down and dirt libido' thread will know what I'm on about here.
I've noticed something odd that happend when my libido rises- I stop caring so much about my partner. It's like I go cold emotionally, even though I still have really strong lustful, erotic fu**ing type urges.

I have experienced another type of libido that was just as strong where the energy was much more about caring, and being intimate, where my greatest need for sex came from wanting to connect to another human being. I was much more affectionate towards my partner, and it sounds terrible, but I cared more about him too than I do now. I was just wondering if my sacral/primary chakra is somehow at odds with my heart chakra? I'd like that heart centred libido back.

All opinions welcome.

Blessed be. I'm certainly no expert, but I experience what you are asking about. I usually have one or two heart chakra orgasms a day. When I first started having them I thought I was having some sort of angina, except if angina were sexual and orgasmic. Now that I know a little more I don't worry so much. For me, the heart chakra energy at orgasm shoots out of the center of my chest. It feels weirdly like when I ejaculate, except of course centered in the chest and obviously nothing physical is shooting out.

I have had a few brow chakra orgasms and I like those the best. I work on having those. One time I was sitting up in a chair at work when I was going for one, which was a mistake because I had a crown chakra orgasm. I know those are supposed to be the be all and end all of some types of taoism, but I'm not a taoist, I'm wiccan, and while interesting, it's not really my thing.

Two things that can help with heart chakra orgasms. The first is the Brain Sync Ecstasy CD which has a second track particularly devoted to encouraging heart chakra energy. It's quite effective. The second is don't be afraid of those horny f@#king feelings. Those are to build up the energy so it can rise up easier. If you can, try to have lots of vaginal orgasms while cutting back on clitoral orgasms (and also avoiding ejaculating, if you ejaculate). My book will help with that, The Orgasmic Diet.

Also, and I know this sounds silly, but you may want to try some simple heart exercises with your partner. It really is a physical thing. Sit in yab yum position, both clothed on your bottom half, but naked chest to chest contact. He stays still, and you rub your chest against his chest, almost like

and I know this sounds silly

like you have male genitalia coming out of your chest and he has female genitalia in the center of his chest, and make the motion with your chest like a man makes with his hips during sex.

Let me know how it goes, if you try any of this.

Lol thanks. A lot of what I've read is '....imagine your heart chakra glowing green and opening like a flower'. Whilst I appreciate that this might work for some, it hasn't for me.

As for the vaginal orgasms thing- it's only happened once or twice as you know (I'm Titania from your forum hehe Exchanges secret handshake )

I will try and get that CD since I'm quite sensitive to sound anyway. I'm going to try for heart/brow orgasms since a guy I know who delas a lot with auras/energy fields said that it is from the heart chakra upwards that I'm the most active.

Do people have orgasms in their throat, solar plexus and base chakras as well? It's just if someone gives me a good massage it feels like my throat and heart are 'opening up' so to speak. It feels really nice. Could be something to do with the muscles though.

xx

Damn. Even just reading that partner heart exercise, I can feel energy moving in my heart chakra. I think I'll let Lezlie fuck my heart tonight. Thanks Witch.

I was hoping someone else would answer this. I've never had any masters, so I am quite ignorant outside of what I have experienced personally and from what I've heard other people experience. Of course I have base chakra orgasms all the time; that's how I build up my energy. I have never had a third or fifth chakra orgasm, in fact even storing the energy there doesn't feel sexual. Which comes in handy! Sometimes if having a high libido is inconvenient I will more the energy to my third chakra. I should probably do that more, I'm just not really interested in that chakra. I believe moving energy to that chakra is a very strong focus of most martial arts training--it gives real world physical power.

I seem to recall Stephane Hemon from ideaGasms claiming once that he has experience with women having throat chakra orgasms brought on by *ahem* learning to fully relax into passionate deep throating.

Sean

I don't buy it. I have no doubt women can orgasm from throating. I certainly can. But it's like having an orgasm with nipple stimulation alone. I wouldn't call that a heart chakra orgasm! It's just a regular orgasm triggered by stimulation in an odd place.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

Yeah, you have a point ... probably not from deep throating alone although I am sticking to this story with all Yoga chicks I pick up from now on. Group meditations in opening the throat chakra. I can already see the poster I will put around town. His girlfriends all do pretty intensive chakra cleansing/meditations + he puts in dozens of hours of full body deep tissue massage on them clearing out trigger points, organic healthy diets, etc, etc. so it's probably a culmination of all the work there.

Even Leonardo's girlfriend, "Mona" Lisa had an active 6th chakra sex life:

http://www.n2davinciandbeyond.com/.shared/..._forehead_2.jpg

Check out her third eye on her left side of her forehead in the shadow.

Bumped for Xenolith

You confuse me xeno--you tell me I shouldn't talk about CCO's but instead talk about heart chakra orgasms, but then when I talk about them you tell me you don't want them talked about in that thread. I know I can veer a thread worse than anybody! So here is a heart chakra orgasm thread for you to respond in if you like.

I am a Witch fan!

I might even buy her sexual energy book...it could happen!

Snake Dolphin

I'm going to clean up that other thread, I've veered it enough!

Anyhow I've spoken to you often enough over the years about the heart chakra outpourings I have. And also posted at length on this board. But I will post it again. After several dozen vaginal orgasms, the energy rises from my cul de sac to my fourth chakra. The pressure builds and builds and release can be triggered various ways--chest to chest contact, seeing a man's chest particularly a naked chest accompanied by a soulful look, even thinking emotionally about a man I care about. I shoot my wad with as little provocation as a teenaged guy. It goes out in spurts, very similar in timing to the contractions of an orgasm, and feels like a firehose of energy shooting out of my chest. It also lasts about as long as a regular orgasm. Sometimes it is so strong I faint afterwards, I frequently burst into tears afterwards. If I am lying down sometimes my body goes involuntarily into a bridge, or if I am sitting or standing my head goes back and my back arches.

I can send it up further, but then it just stays there and makes me sixth chakra horny. I can't send energy out from my sixth chakra, but it starts flexing like my vaginal opening, rhythmically and wanting something to grasp onto. Usually I do that lying down, but the time I had the CCO orgasm it slipped out and went out the top of my head, like a bubble escaping up from underwater. If I had been lying down it would have stayed trapped in the front of my skull.

I can get rid of the energy by sending it back down and having lots (and lots) of ejaculatory orgasms, which take a lot of work and time and leave me physically drained, but I like having heart chakra orgasms best.

Happy?

witch,

Don't misrepresent me. And be not confused. I was simply trying to re-veer the veer of female internal alchemy out of what is a male internal alchemy thread somewhere more appropriate. I guess this thread qualifies. Although, I really think a separate thread is more in order but in this matter it's clear that what I think doesn't matter, indeed it appears that my announcing my opinion in this type of matter may insure that the opposite outcome of that which I opined should occur will.

In any case, I think what remains to explained is the HOW of female internal alchemy. To my knowledge you've not described that nor have any other female Bums. This is the basis for my thinking that a separate thread is in order. Allow me to offer some some starting questions...what is female jing? Where does it go in OKF? Is OKF female internal alchemy? Do women utilize the vagus nerve directly from the pelvic center? How is charge polarity established between the pelvic center and higher centers if not via the spinal nervous system? That aught to get you started.

Whether here or there, in a box, or with a fox. Whether in a house, or with a mouse. Here or there, I'll read your posts on the HOW of female internal alchemy anywhere.

Your friend,

xeno

You are using two systems of terminology. One I don't know anything about--the physiology language of Mantak Chia and taoists is very alien to me. I am still unsure of the difference between jing, shen, chi, kundalini and shakti energy, for example. Perhaps Taomeow can answer you.

I can most definitely talk in scientific medical language, however. I spoke with my mentor, an expert in female sexuality and female sexual dysfunction (and a wonderful MD) about the phenomenon and he said that men feel the outpouring sensation from the vagus nerve during regular ejaculation, and he hypothesized that the stimulation of the end of the vagus nerve in the vagina from vaginal, not clitoral orgasms, triggered the ability for this outpouring sensation from the heart in women.

For a humorous side to the vagus nerve

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10207.html

whoops! credibiltiy lapse, xeno! "ought" is how we spell it correctly.

you're welcome.

Undulation is nothing special.

Sitting in 90 degree chairs is. Ergonomic brainwashing of the thrown.

Learn, Relearn, Forget.

Spectrum

.............

I think xenolith was wanting an explanation in the taoist language he is used to thinking in. I can't do that for him, can you? And of course he's familiar with the sensation of kundalini rising. I think he was particularly interested in a taoist explanation for why in women the heart chakra outpouring is more important than the crown chakra, the difference between the sexes.

I am in agreement with him about surprise at the lack of discussion about the crown chakra orgasm here. As far as I know, almost all the men here cultivate. Although personally I am pleased to find that the very sensible focus on the sixth chakra in men seems to be the consensus here!

Is there another board he can go to that is more Chia-focused?

I cannot. I am not in a system.
I'm a woman, but I don't prefer any chackra.

To keep from veering Cam's journal any worse, I brought Vee Cee's question of yin and yang energy over here. I grabbed that terminology for my own, I'm probably using it wrong. Of course we all have yin and yang qualities within us, but when I was using the term 'yin energy' I was referring to the realization I had this morning that pulling my energy up from my base chakra to my fourth chakra changed the type of energy it was, and unlike base chakra energy it couldn't be easily taken from me by someone needing energy. Since I assume this process of changing energy into a type of energy for ejaculation from the chest is a particularly feminine type of transmutation, I picked the term "yin energy." In that sense, I can't really have any yang energy, because that would be energy drawn up from the

Heck, I don't even know where men draw it up from. I assume the testicles, but the testicles are the second chakra and that corresponds with the ovaries in women. My energy comes from G-spot and cul de sac orgasms, and G-spot orgasms correspond to prostate orgasms in men. But men here don't talk about their BC muscles or their prostate; it's all about the balls and not ejaculating. So clearly I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

We had a phase some time back when all we were talking about was the prostate. You're not so far off as you think.

Witch ,

I wanted to follow up on my comment on Cam's journal. I am also not sure that I am correct in using the yin/yang terminology. I was just expressing my opinion that I think we should work on balancing our own energy rather than relying on someone else to balance it for us. I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say. BTW - I enjoy the POV you bring to this site, so I hope you don't leave.

V.

All right, I guess I just want to apologize to the board for being so fratchety, and an explanation why. I came at all of this ass-backwards; I accidentally got the physical effects without being under a master or following a path or anything. So while I know my body and what's happening to it very well, I don't know the lingo and the philosophy is very alien to me.

Trunk, if that is so, then the men here should all go on my diet. I will put a link The Orgasmic Diet

I don't talk about this too much because of course it freaks most people out, but my diet most definitely increases a man's capacity for prostate orgasms in the exact same way it increases a woman's capacity for vaginal orgasms. It also helps clitoral orgasms simply from the very high libido and improved genital circulation, but the phenomenal thing is the vaginal orgasms.

I can have a vaginal orgasm simply from flexing my PC muscles for ten seconds. With a twenty-second refractory period, I can just keep having them twice a minute indefinitely. Unlike the more satisfying cul de sac orgasms with something long and hard inside me, these spontaneous ones don't really have an end.

And that's why when women look at me like I have two heads, I tell them, "You spend five years having fifty orgasms a day, every day, sometimes LOTS more, and gain the ability to be continuously orgasmic for hours at will, no hands, no toys, just flexing, and THEN tell me I'm nuts."

And VeeCee, that's the thing. When I'm talking about "energy" I'm talking about something really specific. The body has all sorts of energy, the energy to get up and start the day, the energy to fight off sickness, the energy to fight, the energy to have sex. This isn't even the last one, it's not the same as horniness. This energy is a product of horniness, it's after I have all the orgasms that I have this energy. And I seriously get the female equivalent of blue balls at my heart if I don't either ejaculate it or do something else with the energy, like send it back down and have G-spot ejaculation orgasms. It would be nice to have a word for it, but what's the sense of having a word if people haven't experienced what the word means?

I think women who do Taoist practises probably experience what you say, witch, without the diet. You already know that I do. Taoist practises stimulate the glands and hormones considerably.

Oh yes, I know most of other women here can do what I do! That's partly why I'm here. I'm so very, very tired of having to be public about my abilities to publicize my book and being treated like a freak. I meant in general women have no clue. There was one women's magazine where the entire editorial staff doubted that vaginal orgasms even existed. They didn't know what they were, had never experienced one. So I can't really jump in and start talking about all these strange mystical sexual experiences to the world at large! I did mention them briefly in my book, with reassurances to women so they wouldn't get scared if it started happening to them and resources to learn more. Anyhow, that's all over with now, thank goodness, and I don't have to be in the public eye anymore.

Do you know the taoist lingo for all of this, to explain to xenolith? Although he's probably gone now. Also of course I'd be very interested to know what would happen to a woman already where I am who tried out the diet. Probably nothing extra, but I'm still curious!

I understand that. And what I was referring to was more a psychological animae/animus thing. It's apples and oranges. Sorry for being confused/ing.

V.

..........

No, not gone witch. Merely more contemplative than expressive now. Thank you for many things. Contemplation will give way to expression. I hope you and others will share your experience then.

Oh for goodness sakes--we aren't saying you are wrong (at least about men) just awfully solemn! Here, I found this for you, took me long enough. Seems full of arcane jargon! The pertinent part is in the middle of the text, on women

The Shadow of the Dalai Lama

And may I point out it says exactly what I've been saying all along has been my experience!

Except I usually ejaculate it instead of sending it downstairs again.

To further go into my own peculiar way of looking at things, I like this guy

Kooky goofy taoist sex guy

Except I don't agree with the non-ejaculation thing--two weeks is enough! And he's all about the CCO sex as being the ultimate and I honestly think that's a guy thing, and sophisticated wankery and that's why all the tantric goddesses are so damn mad all the time!

My pet theory that I keep longwindedly explaining to anyone who sits still--it's all about the 8. Sign of infinity, lovers' knot. Why the number 8 when there are five sex chakras? I think there are eight sex aspects. Base chakra generates the energy, crown chakra is an escape valve when too much energy builds up in the skull. But the general idea isn't a straight up and down thingie that you are talking about--that's a bad luck dragon. A good luck dragon has curves, like an 8. So base and crown, and then the man gives energy to the woman through the second chakra, woman gives it back going up through the heart (she sends seminal energy up) man gives back through the third eye, woman gives back forehead energy through the heart going down in a grounding way.

Saturn--base chakra
Mars--male second chakra
Venus--female second chakra
Moon--female fourth chakra
Sun-male fourth chakra
Eris--male sixth chakra
Pluto--female sixth chakra
Uranus--crown chakra

Eight planets, eight houses, in perfect balance. I guess that leaves the third and fifth chakras to the mutable planets. But they don't really fit.

I'll figure it out eventually!

.....

Well I looked both up, the Tree of Life and that astrology link, and here's where my colossal ego is--they're both wrong. The sex planets are the planets ruling the cardinal and fixed signs. The cardinal signs send out energy and the fixed signs receive energy and transform them, except for the planet ruling the cardinal earth sign, Saturn, which generates the energy, and the fixed air sign (governing kundalini) ruler Uranus, which receives the energy and releases into the cosmos if too much.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm a witch so I'm all set in the tarot department!

I guess the point I'm trying to make in all of this is that sure, we all have all planets in our charts, and for example I could probably receive heart energy from a woman through the action of my Sun, but it would be unnatural and very hard work for me. Likewise, the starting point for energy is naturally a woman, the base chakra energy generation is VERY easy and natural for a woman who is eating right, in particular getting enough omega-3 fatty acids, and in good health with good PC muscle tone. So let's say a woman has, easily and naturally like breathing, a few dozen of these PC-muscle-flexing orgasms. That activity creates an intense, desperately strong need in the second chakra. This need elicits a very strong response in the matching male second chakra.

Now what should happen at this point, and generally doesn't, also I believe due to dietary imbalance, is that a man fully drained of his energy should then have an opening of the heart, a hunger. This Sun hunger, a needing for that fiercely loving female energy, easily elicits a rising up and outpouring of female sexual energy through the heart chakra. When a woman has emptied out all her energy in this way, she gains a hunger in the third eye for male energy. She needs the two horns of male sixth chakra energy intersecting and penetrating through her third eye back to her amygdalae (I think that's the goal). Et cetera!

And that's why I think it's faster to get the energy up and moving with two people than one person doing it on his own. They can, of course. I just think doing this sexually makes it a hundred times easier. Sort of the difference between a guy trying to masturbate thinking about doing laundry and paying bills or trying to masturbate watching really raunchy porn. The first guy, if he's horny enough, can do it. But why work that hard?

How is female spiritual evolution obtained?

Hmm. I'm not sure that fits into my view of things. I think this sexual practice whether done with difficulty alone, or more easily with a partner will bring enlightenment to men and endarkenment to women, so there is a balance for both genders.

My main goal in my own personal practice is balance, not really evolution. That sexual practice brings a balance of male and female. But I think my closest belief to your idea of spiritual evolution is following the North Node of a person's natal chart. So it really doesn't have anything to do with cultivation or sex at all, except maybe coincidentally, depending on where the North Node falls. If a person focuses their energy on working on their North Node, then the rest of their chart falls into balance. Astrologers who believe in reincarnation do believe that this results in spiritual evolution, that the next life will be a step up. I'm personally agnostic about reincarnation and focus on this life. Life is just better when it's in balance, and I've found this practice bring that balance.

If you really want to follow the hard path to wisdom, that path is held by Saturn. However, unlike the North Node, following Saturn is the wrong path for a lot of people. But it will certainly make you deep!

Here's more on North Node/South Node stuff

Cafe Astrology

Nirvana. That's what I'm talking about. Illumination. Enlightenment. Is there the female equivalent of the Great Straight Upward Path? If so, how is it accomplished? That's the question I'm asking.

Surely some female Bums seek this in Life. Please share your experience and insight.

female ??? male?????



hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa

I once went to a female sexuality/Daoism seminar hosted by Livia Kohn. She gave a really nice talk that emphasized the importance of the heart/middle dantian in the female, comparing it to the lower dantian to the male and so on and so forth but I couldn't summarize. She'd be a good resource, perhaps, for comparing the different paradigms.

I know I babble on a lot, ignore my meanderings, xeno.

From the Shadow of the Dalai Lama

“The sudden opening of the heart, chakra, causes an ecstatic experience of illumination; the heart of the woman becomes the heart of the universe” (Thompson, 1981, p. 19).


And how we get there was spelled out in the rest of that part of the link, the section on women.

Very good. Thank you. I've been formulating a hypothesis based on assimilation/integration of disparate information collected over the years on the nature and pathway of spiritual evolution for women. For this purpose, I'm obviously severely handicapped in not being female. 24 years of monogamy (since 17) has mostly helped in this pursuit, but has certainly provided for a small data set! mrs. x has been very informative and her comments have provided profound insights that are being echoed by these recent comments. She's asserted (paraphrasing) 'that women are heart centered and that men are brain centered'. There are definitely corroborating statements in Taoist and Buddhist texts. What this means in terms of the disparity of mechanics of Enlightenment between the sexes...i.e. the difference between the brain centered CCO that men (can) experience and the heart centered orgasms that women can experience is that which I'm very interested in sorting out. I very much understand the former, not so much the latter. Apparently Ovarian Kung Fu is not the mechanism, as is the male counterpart, SKF in the generating the brain centered CCO. So what is the mechanism of heart center orgasms? That's the real question.

I'll certainly share more as this hypothesis takes more clear form. Additional commentary from women would be most gracious of you to offer and very sincerely appreciated. I realize the deeply personal nature of the question and even more so the answer.

Namaste.

xeno

My take on it is that there isn't really a "mechanism" to it. I don't think it comes naturally to men to push their energy up, it's natural for them to ejaculate. Women don't ejaculate, for the most part, so if a woman is having lots of vaginal orgasms the energy naturally builds and rises there. I'd say the only tricky thing is opening up and surrendering to it in the first place. It's overwhelming and initially can be rather frightening. In my case it is absolutely necessary to have a sex object. I've never had one of these without focusing, thinking of a man I am pouring my energy out to. I don't know if that's universal or not. Doesn't have to be a man I know, helps if the man seems to have an open heart.

Call it a process then. Or whatever you want. witch, is it your assertion that vaginal orgasms are precursory to Enlightenment for women? Please understand the requirement for a distinction between Enlightenment and 'a really good time'. No offense, just thought that that was necessary to point out to any, maybe nobody, who may assist in this endeavor.

That's hard to say, then. First off, I will say I don't think vaginal orgasms are required to have this heart chakra outpouring ability. That's just the easy, natural way. I assume there is some sort of mechanism for women to push energy up, in a sort of masculine way, generating the energy simply by refraining from clitoral orgasm. I don't know.

Of course your question is not the techniques of developing this ability for heart outpourings, but whether a woman who can do this is enlightened. More specifically it would mean that I am enlightened, as I had six heart chakra orgasms just today (last one was shooting blanks). Tom Robbins wrote in a letter that I was halfway to enlightenment, but that was a few years ago. I'm not sure you would recognize him as an authority!

I feel quite ridiculous talking about this, but in my personal experience I believe these bodily sensations are merely reactions of the nervous system, and enlightenment would involve the long-term effect of experiencing them, not just the immediate sensation. I will say for certain my third eye has opened. I am also quite sure I had a CCO, and the aftermath of heart chakra orgasms is very different. I would say in my case it has made me more hot-tempered and wicked, rather than enlightened. In my own personal experience it has been an endarkenment, like Persephone being taken to the Underworld by Hades. I can see the very roots of myself, and all of my own wickedness. It's very good. It's a deep, dark thing.

Not much time to discuss...important to point out that within SKF, third eye center is not accessible without traversing the crown center, something no-one on this Forum has made anything resembling a reasonable accounting of being able to do...leading me to believe that the lotta men who talk about activating their third eye centers are bullshitters...it's easy to image it, not so to do it. Have no idea with respect to women. Mind is open. Again, process commentary is solicited.

witch, your endarkenment comment is consistent with many of those disparate pieces of information that I referred to. Sadly. Meaning that I empathize with you and with women. There is a certain and strong sacrificial process related to the compassion that true women experience. To wit: Hypatia...my all time favorite, non-living, human being. She mated her heart and her brain...experiencing (female) Enlightenment perhaps. How sad that that was seen as grounds for her extermination by the society that she lived in. Would have Loved to Talk to Her. A righteous witch. You are too.

My turn for a ramble. Do good things.

Peace.

xeno

I don't think my third eye was opened by my own energy, I think it was opened by someone else's energy. Of course that could very well be imaginary, some kind of tulpa I created on my own, but it was outside of me, horned, and male. And the CCO I had was from that energy going up instead of back, because I was sitting up. I haven't wanted to talk about that because not only does it sound insane, it's the sort of thing not too long ago that got women into a world of trouble.

In any case, with the amount of energy I pour out every day, it stands to reason it is returned to me in some way. I think in the same way I can pop the cherry of men with open hearts, by the strength of my heart chakra outpouring, someone popped my sixth chakra--because it doesn't feel like an eye, it feels like a vagina. Although I do now have some of those "third eye" abilities, being able to see and understand things I didn't before.

I’m of the view that what the first poster should be considering is balancing the downward flow of energy with the upward flow of energy. With balance, there is little room for friction, pains or issues that may cause one to run back after a try. I’ve considered that to be the most important factor in practicing the orbit. The ballooning effect that was spoken of in the heart chakra may be bad news if there is no capacity for a transfer of energy to the next chakra (as stipulated by one’s standing or practice). And if too much Qi fills one chakra and accidentally burst into the next, basically virgin chakra that has never felt energy before, well, we need not speak of pain, pressure and electric storms.

Read Energy Balance Through the Tao: so that chi will be as a river (liberated qi)and orgasm can be pleasurable

All the best.


http://kundalini.se/eng/engstrat.html
http://kheper.net/topics/Taoism/microcosmic_orbit.html
http://www.universal-tao.com/FAQ/microcosmic_orbit.html
http://www.health-science-spirit.com/sexrejuvenat.html

[quote name='Fusion' date='Oct 3 2007, 08:49 AM' post='37302']
I’m of the view that what the first poster should be considering is balancing the downward flow of energy with the upward flow of energy.

-------------------------------------

it is written;....spiritual nature is the heaven hidden in man's head, and bodily life is the earth hidden in man's navel." Only through the integrated cultivation of the two, could one complete merit and cultivation, awaken to one's nature, "keep one's essence, collect one's vital breath, and concentrate one's spirit", and unify these three into one as the great elixir.

and that is of course "man" as in "human BEING".

Xeno, while not lodging any argument with your personal experience/study, such a generalization of "SKF" and "posters being bullshitters" is unfounded. To simply look at the various traditions one sees quite clearly that there is limited consensus on anything. However, in most traditions dealing with "chakras" one first opens the third eye or ajna then (if one is capable) one goes on to the crown. Certainly from a Taoist Alchemical perspective one can speak of various points along the "Orbit" or the Du and Ren meridians, though these do not directly compare to the Chakras of other traditions. If one speaks of the various "passes" of other Taoist texts, you do find descriptions of experiences similar to the one you have described, though again, one finds clear distinctions from "chakras". Again, this is not to question at all your personal journey nor the experiences you have had along it. However, you are in no position to call those who have claimed or inferred (note: this is coming from someone who has not and will not make such a claim whether or not it is so) "bullshitters". There are few if any texts or traditions to support your claim of a "one true route to opening the third eye", and considering the diversity of experience her, you can't know who has had what opened.

[quote name='xenolith' date='Oct 2 2007, 08:16 PM' post='37280']
Not much time to discuss...important to point out that within SKF, third eye center is not accessible without traversing the crown center, something no-one on this Forum has made anything resembling a reasonable accounting of being able to do...leading me to believe that the lotta men who talk about activating their third eye centers are bullshitters...it's easy to image it, not so to do it. Have no idea with respect to women. Mind is open. Again, process commentary is solicited.

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I have given an explanation of exactly this in this forum.

A very fair comment Taoist81. I'd like to clarify something. Within the practice that I'm familiar, traditional Taoist internal alchemy utilizing the MCO, the crown center is encountered before the third eye center. My experience corroborates this. To be clear, my third eye center was unreachable prior to traversing the crown center and traversing the crown center wasn't possible until I learned how to avoid a CCO...they occur nearly spontaneously upon reaching the crown...very tricky to make it to the third eye via the MCO indeed.

Your comments illustrate an important point...tantric or kundalini or other methods may facilitate access to the third eye center BEFORE traversing the crown (as witch described in her post after my poorly defined post to which you've quite reasonably taken some objection to), IOW, via some path other than the MCO. I can see how what I wrote could be understood to be referring to ALL methods when what I meant to connote was through the specific method of the MCO.

I'm grateful for your very heuristic comments. Thank you. Hopefully other Bums will offer their experience with these other methods which facilitate activation of the third eye without traversing the crown. I'd be most interested in learning how it's done.

Peace.

xeno




rain, would you be so kind as to direct me to the location of the explanation to which you refer.

Thank you.

xeno