What is black magic? is it to be feared? I understand it plays a significant role in Tibetan Buddhism? Can anyone answer these questions? Thanks

Where do you get these ideas man?


Basically you could think of black magick, as magick used for "negative" purposes. What is negative can be very debatable. Should one "fear" it? Well no (and why fear anything at all? I know, easy to say...hehe), since if you fear it, you`ll be only more susceptible to it. But that doesn`t mean it`s something to be taken lightly.

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When I think of black magic in the Tibetan tradition, I think of the life of Milarepa. Marpa would call him "the sorceror". I think he killed a bunch of folks with his magic to avenge wrongs against his family and then his teacher told him to practice the dharma to atone for his actions. Marpa made Milarepa suffer a great deal to burn off his black karma but before the end of the process, Marpa's wife took pity on Milarepa and helped him escape a portion of his suffering. Marpa said that b/c of Milarepa's 'escape' he would have to practice generating good karma for a much longer period of time.

Eventually, of course, Milarepa got everything sorted out and lived happily ever after.

Milarepa is who catalyzed me to make th post. There is a new movie out about his life playing in like 8 cities.

Just finished watching this movie, I liked it. It is only the first part though. He hasn`t met Marpa yet.

First of all, "White" and "Black" don't have the same connotation in Tibet as in Europe, when speaking about magic. According to my memory, in Tibet you have four colours of magic, three additional ones to black. None of them are polarized into good and evil as in our western traditions.

All the best
Mandrake

i'm inclined to agree with mandrake.


but to answer your question, "what is black magic?"

i think it depends on the context.


in many western mystery schools, any art dealing with the esoteric can be termed the 'dark arts.' dark as in 'unknown' or 'secret.'

i personally like aleister crowley's definition: that black magick is any magick that's not for the explicit purpose of awakening. any magickal act which doesn't move toward enlightenment further entrenches endarkenment. i think that was his reasoning if i remember correctly. like the trappings of developing abilities. even the cultivation of my healing abilities can be viewed as black magick, and it helps me to keep perspective when i consider it in that light. some tibetan masters actually consider healing work to be evil because they believe it prevents the soul of the afflicted from receiving the purification of the pain and suffering that their past choices have brought them to. obviously i disagree. but it's worth pondering, i think.

imagine the curing of disease as a plot to prevent the spiritual evolution of humanity. we never release our baggage because our karmic cycles are never allowed to balance themselves. we could be set back many lifetimes.

I dont know about tibet, in parts of south-america and africa black magic is very alive today. Dont mix up with vodun practice.

Edit: nm, sensitive subject.

Thanks Taomeow! That site looks lovely from first glance

Can you pm me site plz fusion ?

No problem, Just a second

This statement is 100% true of our world today.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

you're definitely gonna have to explain your perspective.

there was a time when i would agonize over this issue, but not any longer. i'm open to reconsider, as always, but i'll need you to break down your perspective.


the way i see it, only someone who's never done authentic healing work could reach such a conclusion. it seems a short-sighted and materialistic assumption. i mean, enlightenment is itself an achievement of healing- the highest form of healing, i would say. it's not just the body that's affected; it's the entire being. people who come to me for physical ailments receive mental & emotional breakthroughs as well, and many have wholly transcendental experiences that forever change the way they view the world and their place in it. it's not like using some form of spiritual 'white-out' to erase past choices and transgressions.

besides, to take such a perspective is to assume that the energy worker is the healer when, in fact, it's the patient who is the healer. the energy worker is merely the catalyst for the patient's own subtle inclinations. and oftentimes the results are something that neither person expects.


your thoughts?

There will probably be alot of western medical drs. here who will disagree with me. I am not attacking them at all.

My views on your statement "imagine the curing of disease as a plot to prevent the spiritual evolution of humanity. we never release our baggage because our karmic cycles are never allowed to balance themselves. we could be set back many lifetimes."

The govs. of this world know that TODAY'S Western Medical Science is really not out for curing people. It keeps people on drugs, never giving a response to curing a disease straight and direct. Research centers for diseases for 40 yrs, but no cures for them.
Prescription medicine designed to give you a problem you never had, and or emphasize the problem you already have. Diseases in the world didn't appear out of the blue. Like Aids, SARS, and the some of the diseases people take vaccinations for were created to make people sick, lessen the population, and keep people controlled.
China has diseases and health problems it never had...and those problems resemble what western countries have. China is a wonderful market. Pharmaceutical companies make a killing out here. And people ae getting sicker and sicker by the minute, and believe Chinese medicine to not work at all! Can you believe that? Chinese people in China, disbelieve their own medicine, and claim western medicine to be better because when they swallow a pill their headache goes away...until they have another headache. They keep having headaches and keep popping pills, and say western med is good. BUT THEY STILL HAVE THE HEADACHE! hahaha The dumbing down of society is prevelent in China. They got it good.
The powers that be promote a medicine that will not cure anything and hasn't cured anything completely, without harmful sideeffects, and a life long of taking medicine, since the corporations took control. Western medicine did work..when it was still using herbal medicine...complete herbal medicine.

This is one of the influences on our lives, where our karmic afflictions are never cleared out, and we are stuck in our own delusion from it all for eons.

This is what I meant.. lol... I am sure many will disagree. No one has to believe me. The proof is in the pudding. And the Pudding is Earth's society.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

Some parts of the tantra, usually the anuttara (highest) tantra deals with the lower forces, sex, violence, human sacrifice. Not in real action, but imitated way. Just to transform those energies. Also, the old gods of tibet needed such things, and gurus converted the rituals to be safe according to buddhism. (Guru RInpoche,Atisha, Tsongkapa) But still, they can be misunderstood, seen as black magic.
Also not everyone is for enlightenment in tibet the can pray for the death of their enemies too. They use magic a lot. Like Aunt Lisa, praying against her grandchild's girlfriend in front of the statue of Virgin Mary, in the corner of the church.
You can find out more here:
http://www.vajranatha.com/

There is a bit of not 100% Buddhist cultivation in Tibet. They have their traditions before Buddhism reached there, and mixed Buddhism with their traditions. Sacrificing and such with actual living beings is not Buddhism. Wishing evil on people in any respect is not Buddhism.

There may be an aggressive aspect to Buddhism, utilizing certain mind postures to influence a demon into cultivating properly, and not to hurt others, but that's about it.

One can say, Black Magic is mainly used out of greed and anger. Not getting what one desires, they utilize ghosts and demons to help them hurt others and get what they want, or utilize energy to influence others.


Peace and Blessings,
Lin

well, i agree. proceedures and pills that keep us producing dead capital out of labor within well-defined boxes, designed to look like freedom.

I haven't done the research, so you can totally ignore me if you like. Western medicine seems to be fairly effective for most things, but then again I've been taught to trust western medicine, so maybe I'm just biased. It seems like Chinese medicine does a better job of harnessing the body's natural healing powers while western medicine is all about killing the disease. Seems like they both could learn a thing or two from each other.

your perspective is a reasonable one. western medicine IS effective with a number of illnesses and diseases, but not even close to being able to say "most things." but then, a large part of it may depend on your definition of "effective."

lin gave a really good analogy with headaches as an example. the headache (ie, illness) remains, but if you take this drug you won't have to feel it. this attitude of "kill the effect; ignore the cause" is a recipe for chronic illness of pandemic proportions.

the way it's typically broken down is that western medicine is excellent for the treatment of acute illness, whereas eastern medicine excels in the realm of chronic illnesses. if you have a hernia, a broken leg, or a ruptured spleen, stay with the west. but if you have hypertension, tumors, or cancer, go with the east.

so they have their domains in which they tend to be most effective, and of course there's lots of overlap.

BUT...

when pharmaceutical lobbyists have the power to sway policy decisions (and they do. and they have.), you end up with a medical paradigm that promotes disease maintenance over actual cures.


"because the money's not in the cure; the money's in the medicine. in the comeback. that's how a drug dealer makes his money: on the comeback."

--chris rock


never thought i'd quote him, but he made a good point.



"kill the disease" typically means "poison the body," so our "cures," in effect, are actually creating diseases. but the goal is for THOSE diseases, the ones created by the so-called cure, to be manageable.

TCM will take a more holistic approach. rather than merely repairing or patching up what's broken, part of the goal is to understand how it got broken in the first place.

not only that, but TCM acknowledges that the body, when properly supported, can create it's own miracle cures, whereas western medicine tends to hurt the body while trying to k or numb it.


western vs. eastern = "attack the disease" vs. "enhance the righteous"

Very good points you make. The "kill the effect; ignore the cause" idea you said makes a lot of sense as to the "modern" behavior towards daily living. In a way, the world behavior towards life, to a great extent, mirrors to a "T" what Shakyamuni Buddha and many Buddhas over the ages have said, "Living beings look for the outcomes, fear the outcomes..."

The rest of that quote is, "...sages, Bodhisattvas look at the causes, fear the causes."

In our world the great majority pays no mind to the causes of their outcomes. They mainly look to their benefits, pleasurable, and or unpleasant, bad outcomes. They fear the outcomes of their causes for lack of wisdom in knowing the cause.

One of the main reasons why living beings get sick, diseased, is due to their ignorance towards their causes; from their thoughts, emotions, desires, speech, and actions. Of course I am narrowing it down abit.

Peace,
Lin