>>Sex; moderate and no orgasms unless you are making babies. Anyone can argue with me on it, and I will simply say I don't care. No matter what, if you want your cultivation to soar and develop properly, then no orgasms from any chakra, no wasting our fluids and no orgasm without ejaculation. Dual cultivation is fine, the woman can orgasm if she wants, but eh.<<

Hi Lin,

you invited us to ask questions and I politely accept.

That the topic of sexual activity for men is a crucial one seems to be agreed upon by the many who talked about it in recent years and coming from different traditions. Just the approach to it is manifold... no agreement at all, equal to the answer to the question of eating meet or not: a wide range of views available...

I am interested in a further elucidation of your statement above, if you don't mind.

You write:

"no orgasms" &

later you say:

"no orgasm without ejaculation"

so the advise then is to ejaculate without orgasm? This question may sound silly but maybe in your answer lies a truth I am not yet aware of!

"no orgasms" to me means: "you can have sex but do not go as far as to orgasm. This way you help your girl have fun or whatever, but you yourself don't lose anything"

right way to be understood?

"no orgasm without ejaculation": could mean: if you orgasm THEN do ALSO ejaculate...

but if that is what you mean one would lose fluid, which you advise against...

thankx for considering an answer



Harry

if i might chime in on this one:

i think he's saying "orgasm without ejaculation" as a term of art, as in to say "no orgasms, and no *non-ejaculatory* orgasms, either."

that's the way i read it.

no depleting jing or shen.

i truly believe having no orgasms at all will just result in nocturnal emissions. as humans we are horny by nature, if you tell your body "no" it will tell you "yes" when "you" are asleep. simple as that.

i don't know how common this is, but i've never had a nocturnal emission. even when first going through puberty, no highly erotic dreams which led to ejaculation.

perhaps it's still a matter of mindset, even when asleep. if you're just suppressing your urge, then it would make sense that it will try to express itself when the conscious mind is not standing guard. however, if you've worked sufficiently to the point where you've actually refined/redirected your sexual desire into greater spiritual aspiration or what have you, then you're not fighting against your body's nature; you're just expressing that nature in a different, possibly more advantageous manner.

ditto...I've had my share of nice dreams, but none truly 'wet'...

On two occaisions during my teenage years I had very lucid wet dreams. Could have been succubus in the form of girls I knew in school. I can tell you it was as real as any sex I've had in the real world.

I just found the topic.. hahaha Good questions.

Okay, No Orgasm means if you are liking your sex, just don't ejaculate and don't have an orgasmic feeling for it disperses your energy, even if you are directing it to the crown, dantian, or heart chakras. The dispersion of energy is more than one actually gathers from the focusing of the orgasmic (Yang) energy to the chakra, dantian. Its advised one doesn't do it for the sake of wasting a lot of Qi for a little accumulation.
Now, no orgasm without ejaculation means that if you want to have an orgasm, then make sure you ejaculate and do it only when you are going to have a child... hahaha
I am locking the door on both ends with my statements. Orgasm without ejaculation will result in sperm entering the bladder, and cause some problems there as well as a producing of sperm and thus wasting energy in the kidneys and testicles. Not fun.

The advice is if you are going to ejaculate, which means you will have an orgasmic feeling, make sure its when you are going to make a baby.

Not having an orgasm and not ejaculating, build up Yang Qi in the body. We all know that. But most people end up with night emissions, and a great surge of sexual energy, and sometimes can't deal with it. This is why training in patience, and wisdom is so very important. Its not just sitting meditation, but developing wisdom through everyday actions and habits ; also changing habits and understanding their causes and outcomes.
All very important to putting down the mental habit of orgasm and ejaculation, and further developing still mind in cultivation.

Body urges are said to be natural, but they come from the senses which are blocked once there is a sense. Meaning, your ears have a function. They hear. BUT when there is a sound, the hearing is now blocked by the sound. There is only the sound present. That means there is no more hearing.

So with the sexual urges, it is a sense of touch, and mind together. Being mindful of touching which results in further stimulation of where the mind wants to focus due to habit...sex.

Also, being taught how to successfully direct that energy into more productive cultivation is vital to succeeding without night emissions...no more wasting Jing! hahaha

Peace and Blessings,
Lin



Excellent!

The body's nature is to feel...nerves help it do that, and by our mind we create our idea of reality according to it. So, when we feel something as strong as sex, we believe it to be something so natural and powerful, and a must do! haha Of course its fun for most, but when done to release Jing, it take a big chunk of our Qi, and a big chunk of our cultivation.

Just properly direct that energy through proper manners of cultivation, and change the views of the mind, habits and behavior. Start to understand one's ways of living, thoughts, speech, behavior when explaining, thinking and doing things. Changing that makes it easier to deal with sexual urges, or in cultivation words, High level Yang Qi.. hahaha

Peace,
Lin




Ghosts can do that. They know our thoughts, so they can pick what we resonate towards most, and
take from us as much as they can for as long as we are unaware, or confused.

Be careful...demons and ghosts and the like use our own energy when entering our dreams and drain us, try to, in all manners for their own benefit.

It seems like this conversation will take on many realms. I suggest we strongly keep mindful of our habits and behavior so as to prevent confusion in our own personal lives..
Simply because taling about different realms attracts those beings, and if they are not too fun, then they will be trying to influence one from understanding and cultivating properly... hahaha Fun right?

Peace,
Lin

I'm attracted, all right, but neither ghost nor demon!

There's a balance in life! Even Buddha liked to eat! Maybe dreaming of a woman who truly values a man's jing, dreaming of giving something valuable and valued rather than ejecting something from the body that is treated like toxic waste is good for opening the heart chakra in a man, allowing him to receive energy that can

oh, never mind. Men!

Aiwei, union with the Tao is THE goal of spiritual evolutionary practice. I very much respect your perspective and your kindness in sharing it. Not to mention my agreement with nearly everything that you've offered, but very significant opposition to it regarding two points: Crown center activation is non-shen depleting. In fact, it's union with the Tao. Like I said, THE goal of spiritual evolution.

Also, a pelvic orgasm that results in sperm in the bladder IS an ejaculatory orgasm. The ejaculate just went other than out of the body. This is the seminal point of SKF, it's the energy which results from gonadal stimulation that must be mobilized and utilized in order to avoid ejaculation, external or internal! The energy made from the movement and vibration of the gonads can be extracted and mobilized away from the gonad center to work elsewhere through the practice of SKF. With the goal being union with the Tao by means of conversion of this jing energy into it's purer form chi, a much more mobile form, which can be more readily moved by the practitioner. I'm beginning to understand the value of a manual of SKF practice...it'll come.

Lest the criticism be seen at the expense of the compliment, let me reiterate my respect for your work and your compassion in sharing it. Thank you.

xeno

I appreciate your direction on the different orgasms and their pointing to the union with Dao. Though there are practices that do direct the state to be experienced, and I do not look to put down anyone's own experience, if the state of union with Dao is not constant, it is still a state, and is only passing. It can be experienced in states, but it wouldn't be constant until that state is achieved by dropping the tools.
When Shakyamuni Buddha was a child, and sitting alone one day, he sat in stillness automatically and experienced a bliss he realized was Nirvana much later on in life while under the Bodhi Tree. He found the expedient to attain it, and realized further that constant experience of it led one to finally attain it "permanently".

Methods to get to are only the crutches for us to walk with until we recognize that state, and get that manner in all aspects of living without the method we used.

I never talked about sexual techniques before, nor of my own experiences. But what I will say is, if one knows how to have orgasms without dispersing their energy, go for it. Unless one has guidance for it, do not do it.

hehe Your words are too kind >>>bows<<<

Peace,
Lin

Agreed on all counts. And happily so.

Your points regarding the transiency of states is very well made. Truly, the manifestation of the Buddha is the REAL goal. I merely offer that the experience of union with the Tao can make all the difference in directing one's mortal existence toward that manifestation...when that which has been seen with one's celestial vision is recognized with one's mortal vision then the Buddha is manifest. The former makes the latter exceedingly more possible!

Peace to you as well.

xeno

Consistency is the key to cultivation.

hehe Fun!

>>>bows<<<

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

interesting views, i never heard these ones. they may really be genuine, or a result of some "useful misunderstanding"
first of, non-ejaculatory orgasm doesnt end with the sperm going into the bladder, unless you are not practicing it correctly. the correct statement would be "non-ejaculatory orgasm MAY end with sperm going into the bladder, IF you dont take enough time to learn it right" - different, huh ?
second sexual energy that has an adress, that is the technical definition of awakened sexual energy. usually, the adress is an outside stimullus. taoists belive that it is more difficult to change the adress of the energy, it is easier to work with it when it doesnt have an object, or adress.
third you may confuse working with "fire type" and "water type" sexual energy", with some other doctrinal and moralistic issues. you need to know what can you do with "fire" and what can you do with "water". not only that, but until you learn to work with the "water", you have to keep the energy full and functional. if not, it'll dry up. that is the case of most celibate and monk-like practicioners. it's not a rule of the thumb, there are some exceptions, but that usually happens.
fourth harry, you should know better when you try to ask a monk about wordly affairs.
fifth if you want to know about the Great Dao, the first thing is, they dont judge things MORALLY, the eventual rules they abide by are purely PRACTICAL.

"useful misunderstanding" = an incorrect theory that may still yeald some good result

Thankx girls and guys, and very much appreciated that you took the time, Lin

there is one statement of yours saying: "I never talked about sexual techniques before, nor of my own experiences. But what I will say is, if one knows how to have orgasms without dispersing their energy, go for it. Unless one has guidance for it, do not do it."

So if I get that right you know methods to do just that, or was it more a statement of saying: "I do not really believe it is possible" ???

>> harry, you should know better when you try to ask a monk about wordly affairs.<<

Good one And still: so far even monks still carry a human body... so at least they in a way had to deal with the topic at one point in their life

>> if you want to know about the Great Dao, the first thing is, they dont judge things MORALLY, the eventual rules they abide by are purely PRACTICAL.<<

That is the trouble. The question about sex & jing, from what I understand so far, and the answers given, that often are pretty "sad from the point of view of the male"... are merely practical and not really moralistic. I mean: if a monk tells girls to just enjoy it but guys to be careful... don't think this is a moralistic statement, right? Maybe be a way to keep them away from oneself though



Harry

I know them, but I don't teach them over the internet.

This is something that I've struggled with. Ultimately I decided that the sharing of it (internet or otherwise) was the right thing to do.

I'm very interested in how you arrived at your decision. Please share that!

Thanks,

xeno

Because I will have to give detailed explanations and be in constant dialogue with whomever is practicing them.
And I don't have all that time on the internet.. hahaha It is much better when discussing in person these methods. If someone who just began these practices reads one of our posts about a method or so and tries it, he may get someone pregnant.. hahaha, or waste their energy further, hurt themselves, I wouldn't advise it.



Its not that what I have is mysterious, ..not at all, and some of you all know it. Though I have different views, and methods in some areas, its nothing mysterious, I just take a strong responsibility to what I teach, and do not want to leave room for "internet errors" Its not good karma for things like this to be misunderstood.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

Thank you Lin.

xeno

>>>bows<<<

AMITUOFO

Thank you, Lin

Let me ask a little deeper to get a more complete picture:

So am I right that it has nothing to do at all with being moralistic or not?
Am I right that it is just the way "nature" is if one wants to climb higher on the spiritual ladder?

What about knowing these techniques then. I mean: if one knows them sex can be pleasure, right, or do these techniques actually just let you be "hard" to pleasure your girl but do not produce pleasure for yourself?

But if there is pleasure: pleasure in itself is no obstacle?



Harry

What is SKF, btw?

spot on.



It isnt moralistic. There is lots of pleasure. And spiritual benefit as well as energetic balance.

I'd be surprised if Lin says someting other than that. And if you do Lin, I'd love to know the source and intention of such practises. There are many different strands of Taoism.

ah, well

i believe it's sexual kung fu.

i can have orgasms and not ejaculate and i don't press on the million dollar point or do any of that other weird stuff. no pre-cum either ^^

Fun question.

You mean in the cultivation of it all, does moral mean anything? It does. Put it in this sense, I will take it to celestial realms now. If one wants to "spiritually evolve", become a greater peace, with wisdom and ability, a wise teacher will not give it to someone who has no consideration for anyone else. The celestials will not hand down any teaching to someone who has constant intentions of hurting others, not caring for others or themselves properly, being greedy, etc.
Only demons would give anything to an evil minded, or inconsiderate mind. It builds up the power of evil.
So, moral has alot to do with sexual practice.

People take any sexual action as pleasure. With the techniques, if you are looking for pleasure, it would be there. Remember, pleasure is a state of the mind. It is according to what we consider pleasure is. It is still a thought away despite the techniques used.

The techniques keep one still sexually stimulated to a point...this point you can choose to take in that energy and get "soft" so as not to continue, or stay erect to continue, pull in energy, give energy, and keep building the lifeforce in both yourself and the woman. She will feel pleasure if her mind is focused on body stimulation and that mind of enjoyment. Same for you, BUT it is very easy to fall into the stimulation and forget the cultivation...then POOF its all done. This is where pleassure will be the obstacle...haha

Pleasure isn't important, it is a state and passes. More important is the cultivation. Sex isn't for pleasure really...just having kids and building life force. Building life force is gaining lots of energy. So when you do not ejaculate, you still have the sensation to continue, but you can choose to stop and cultivate it, or continue and pull in more.

So again, Moral are guidelines to keep our mind with proper views, thoughts, intentions and produce positive results. No morals, and boom, we can become a bit reckless and our cultivation turns to something not good.
Not that one has to follow strict moral guidelines of religion.. no, its just that religion wants people to do good, so they focus on moral development.
Just be a good person, keep to proper views of the world through patience , compassion and wisdom, do good things. This is moral enough.. haha

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

you are a buddhist monk, am i correct?

HEHEHE

I do stand by close cultivation of morals in my practice, so I would be inclined to promote a proper mind in doing things...to what I have found through Daoist and Buddhist cultivation. To each their own, yet if no moral guidelines..just basic... then the person should be very very mindful/careful. There is too much influence out there for evil.
The sources for morality come both from Daoist and Buddhist schools. In Daoist cultivation, you don't be selfish, but you don't give everything to the person in dual cultivation because it will be a waste for you and create greed in them. Daoist cultivation is also keeping to patience, compassion and wisdom, just uusing a pathway of don't get involved unless you find it the will of heaven, when it comes to societal problems and such. Buddhist school gives their all under wise discrimination of the conditions and causes, either of the will of heaven or not, given certain situations, a Buddhist cultivator would get involved through certain means so as to maintain a peace, even at the expense of their own life.
For dual cultivation, though Buddhists do not really go through sex as a means to build up their life force, there are some methods, I am sure we have heard of some tantra.. but still, even tantra wasn't to be for sexual uses to a certain extent. I wish I remember exactly how I know that... one of my forgetful moments, I apologize.. lol

Peace,
Lin

Enlightenment isn't important, it is a state and passes. More important is sex. Enlightenment is simply part of the process for men to improve their sexual prowess, by bringing the sexual energy up to their foreheads so they can give women energy from two places on their bodies. Energy is there to be passed back and forth between a man and a woman, bringing great pleasure to both--every day. In this way our bodies are wiser than our rational minds. In true sexual union at all points--genitals, heart and mind, men and women partake of the divine union and feel the love that courses through all things. The woman reaches union with the male essence, with the cosmic Yang, and likewise the man flows into Yin.

See, I am all upside-down and backwards!

Nicely put. That is my problem with sex.

I start with a "goal" for the session but it all just gets too enjoyable and thoughts of cultivation stop and I just have fun! So far I have only felt satisfied without ejaculation once.

Afterwards it's like.... well that was a LOT of fun but not really what I wanted. i.e. enjoyable but not "cultivation"

Working with sexual energy is not something I understand. I don't understand why it is conserved and what to do with it once you "cultivate" some. I know theories, but have no practical experience in how this "feels" for me.

Will be interesting to see if I can "feel" a difference with this Kunlun practice. It's the first thing I have done that requires celibacy, so we will see what happens

I'll presume you meant the COSMIC Yin, you naughty selfish witch you .

i haven't ejaculated for will be 3 weeks now and to be honest i don't feel much different. physically i suppose i'm a bit stronger since my body isn't on the cycle of trying to replenish the lost sperm but if something is going on in the spiritual level i'm not yet keen enough to tell. if i haven't had a wet dream i suppose my body is growing on the inside and it needs the energy so even in my awake hours i keep myself dry.

what you all must keep in mind is that lin is a monk and their life is much more different. no disrespect in any way or form to you, lin, i just personally think life must be enjoyed more. i think the monk life is too bland and egyptian-ish in the esque that more emphasis is placed on enlightenment or your next life rather than enjoying what you have. if you cannot be happy now how could you be happy in the next life? or the life after that?

mal, i personally think if you enjoy it who cares? it's like picking a career. do what you want first and let the money come later; money comes and goes, true happiness is forever.

Have to agree, don't they say "Easy is right, be right and you are easy"

But I don't try to pass off having sex as a spiritual practice. Basically I had given up on retention as a practice, at least untill "I" could "feel" a difference between retention and ejaculation. And was just using Dr Lyns method for fun and enjoyment.

But then along came Kunlun.

lol :-)

There are four states of enlightenment, and the last state is complete meaning one will not fall back into their old habits. There are many levels of awakening, but it isn't enlightenment.. haha. Having sex cannot get one to enlightenment, but can lead them to a state of awakening and understanding.

In the practice of dual sexual cultivation, complete enlightenment cannot be attained. Experience of states of awakening, and some attainment of understanding can be attained. Enlightenment, real enlightenment, doesn't pass. When one attains a state of enlightenment, they are at that state. It doesn't pass, but the person may fall back to all bad habits and forget again.
The enlightenment was always there, but the person's capacity to awaken to it fully wasn't strong enough. At the fourth level of enlightenment, one will not turn back towards their old habits..and the expedient of sex would have been long dropped, for that is not an essential expedient to attain awakening. it is only an expedient that leads so far.
It is for building life force, and familiarizing oneself with certain levels and states of energy. It is not ultimate, and it will not result in complete enlightenment. BUT it will result in some states of awakening, familiarizing and understanding some energies and realms if taught how, and build one's life force.

Then again.. different traditions will see such practices different. its good to share.

Cultivation...enlightenment is important. Abilities, bliss...all of that comes as a result of cultivation.Enlightenment as well...it is all revealed through proper cultivation and putting down. It is not to be grasped, therefore it will not be a state. States are states because they are either sought after, or held onto.


Peace and Blessings,
Lin




No. Not a monk at all. I cultivate both Buddhist and Daoist cultivation. I teach virtue and morals, under the guise of English in China. I don't teach methods that are not fit for people, and I don't directly tell them it is of certain schools of cultivation.. its safer that way. I teach my English students methods to recognize their habits, behavior, lifestyle, and understand how to change them to just be a good person. I can't teach Qigong, meditation and the like in my classes. That will not swing well with the authorities. haha

I cannot leave the home life due to a vow I took for the sake of my fiance and her cultivation.
If it wasn't for that vow, I would leave the home life; the sky would be my blanket and the ground my bed.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin




hahaha I am no monk my cultivation brother.. haha

In the cultivation I work with, there is no after life, no reincarnation, and no future life. It is all Thus. Therefore..though there are different forms that are taken in mind, it is still the same thing...only different views.
I can speak on reincarnation, hells, heavens, future and the now, and it will only be to the minds which need those things to understand, do good things since they cannot put down what they hold onto.

Enjoyment is only in the mind of the one who views enjoyment. My "enjoyment" is much more different than that of others. hehehe and I like laughing
It seems bland, leaving the home life, and the like, but that is because one would be looking through a view of sense and emotional life. There is another world out there that is full of a pleasure not available through sex, and emotions, and the like. But the eyes can't see that until it is cleared from the obstacles of our desires and emotions, senses.. hehehe

This other world is right in, around, outside in front in back of all of us, is all of us, and is neither of us. It is never going, coming, residing and not residing. A riddle, but not sarcastically saying it. I am serious.

I do have sex...not much ... haha but like I said, my enjoyment of things are much different from how things are enjoyed by others.

Keep in mind, I don't hold to religious dogma...both Buddhist Sutras and Daoist texts are not viewed as dogma. They are merely cultivation methods to put down that which we have a problem putting down. "Returning" to a manner that is never left.



Peace,
Lin

[size=6]I cannot leave the home life due to a vow I took for the sake of my fiance and her cultivation.
If it wasn't for that vow, I would leave the home life; the sky would be my blanket and the ground my bed.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

----------------------------------------------------------
I see. thank you. I was so touched by your wows to your wife. Maybe you would like to share with her this poem I found in my parents home, it's a Penguin Signet book from 1948,
"100 American Poems" you seem like a man who truly contemplates your woman and would understand these words by Wallace Stevens, 1879-

IT MUST BE ABSTRACT

I am the spouse. She took her necklace off
And laid it in the sand. As I am, I am
The spouse. She opened her stone-studded belt.

I am the spouse, divested of bright gold,
The spouse beyond emerald or amethyst,
Beyond the burning body that I bear.

I am the woman stripped more nakedly
Than nakedness, standing before an inflexible
Order, saying I am the contemplated spouse.

Speak to me that, which spoken, will array me
In its own only precious ornament.
Set on me the spirit's diamond coronal.

Clothe me entire in the final filament,
So that I tremble with such love so known
And myself am precious for your perfecting.

I would have to translate it to Chinese.. haha It is a nice poem indeed!
Thank you for sharing it

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

Thank you. I think this is really important. And I've never heard it put so directly before.

As Barry Long always used to say: "It may be normal, but it ain't natural!"

Nobody wants to believe that sex is thought and love is presence.

Very true... very true

Hi Lin. I took Sunshine to be asking about this particular aspect, with regard to moralism. ie One rule for the girls, one for the boys.

Not just good practise and right attitude in the more general sense.

Oh...? Didn't see that. haha

Well, I haven't heard of monks saying to enjoy it to women and men to be careful...
It does come down to keeping a good view about things. Like if a woman wants to "enjoy" it and thus
goes out to have lots of sex for the enjoyment of it, or even indulges with her one partner, it would be an indulgence into greed for the view/idea of enjoyment of it.

So the moral foundation to keep in mind would be to not indulge by desire wise, but to commence in the cultivation methods involved in dual cultivation for the sake of building life force, and refining, etc.

It should be both ways, for men and women. Not to just be careful for men, and women to enjoy it.. lol
Yet, enjoyment is still a state, and does cloud the mind. When I say greed, I refer to the manner of wanting the sensation that comes through sex. Keeping right view would be to not commence through the desire for it, but to use sex for the purpose of cultivation. The wanting, seeking, for enjoyment with the cultivation in sex can still lead to keeping the desire for it there.

That was what I meant.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

Thanks Lin.

Right view for all!


Absolutely.

Peace and Blessings

Much appreciated Lin



Harry