I decided I will definetly be going back to either Aikido or BJJ in November.

What are peoples feeling about which one is better long term?

I have this weird feeling of deja vu like we already talked about this before..wierd..

Place your bets folks

Ask sifu Max

I agree, but forgive me for asking the obvious, what happened w/ sticking to your Kunlun training?

Spectrum

Kunlun takes 1 hour a day man..there are 23 hrs after that man.

Please don't make me state the obvious.

I think you should state the obvious everyday.

Kunlun doesn't offer it's seekers any type of exercise or martial/health art?

Oh you changed your post just as I was responding to it! LOL!

Again..there are 24 hrs in a day..if I am doing Kunlun 1 hr a day and don't get involved in other practices what do you expect me to do?! Post on taobums and massage my testicles the rest of the day!?

I changed it because I like to choose my words carefully. Especially regarding peoples personal practices. These things should be respected, not treated like my way right away consumer products.



Exactly what you are, getting out and asking questions face to face. There is Wordless Dialog in movement. If you want I can send you a Funny Stick, they feel good to play with, so you can play with your stick instead of your....

.... Sending a few to Sean this week.

Spectrum

BJJ anyday, plus if you have a Catch Wrestling school or gym near you i would go for Catch as CATCH Can as they have very good strength and conditioning workouts completely different to BJJ. But BJJ is great as well!!!

There is such a thing as giving up your power.
Asking the same thing over and over dissapates your power.
Sometimes it is best to just chose one - do it and then you know whether to continue or not.
One has to be steady - go inside and know what is right for them.
The answer will come and you will be centered.
No one else can really tell you what to do.
Opinions are always colored by the givers experience and
not to your experience.
It is a rare individual who can be impartial enough to give advice,
and that individual will turn your question back to you so you realize
what is right for you, never having given you the answer outwardly.

[
That's because we did... http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=3719

Whats the latest Cam?

For the love of Tao man I am trying not to post!!

Going with Aikido..starting tomorrow.

Awesome! Best of wishes on your journey.

Cameron,

How was it?

Spectrum

I am actually still not sure which one I want to go with

I am tight with both of them and they are both so awesome I will probably do both..but right now I am doing so much already...have my yin teacher in town and Max is coming next week.

Probably wait until December to start training atleast in one if them.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Thats cool you have lots of motivation and enthusiasm for your internal studies.

So close... meaning they are close to your house? That's even easier to do both then!

Which practice is consistently breaking your metabolic barriers?

Spectrum

Both within 30 minutes drive.

Just go with the flow man.

Kinda far to walk, not to far for driving.

Sometimes a man must stand alone.

Thanks for the dialog Cameron.

Spectrum

Cameron,

Progress Report?

Regards,

Spectrum

I am graduating from college next week and need to figure out my work situation but if everything goes as planned will start Aikido in December.

I sat in on class last night and think it will be a nice complement to my Kunlun practice. In addition to just being something I enjoy and a great workout.


Thanks for asking,


Cam

Call me a spiritual glutton, but is it possible to do both, but shifting the focus more from one to the other from time to time as your schedule and needs permit?

My BJJ instructors also have black belts in Hapkido, and they often throw Hapkido joint locks (which come from Aikido) into our training. Of course, the principle of movement is different when you're actually throwing and rolling.

I myself want to complement my BJJ and MT (yes, the typical MMA combo) training with Tai Chi. Hope to find time for that in the future, even though the MMA-type-stuff is still top prioirty. Still, I can't knock the so-called "soft"/internal arts. Frank Shamrock is an explosive striking and grappling machine, but he said he's recently discovered the benefits of tai chi, along with lots of stretching and massage, to make him more integrated as both a martial artist and a human being.

Hi there,

it is funny that Frank Shamrock found this way. He always was the one with (in my opinion) fewest respect for his opponents and with few "philosophy". In the end it is good that such people change their views. That is giving me hope.
I have been praciticing Luta Livre and Muay Thai next to my internal training and the traditional Martial Arts. Good to see other people like that. I think it is a good combination if one doesnt "loose" the way.
Sometimes, after spending many hours training with internal Martial Artists, I found it sometimes quite refreshing to train with some people who do not know the internal way at all and just like to fight. I can learn from both so much.
I think mixing both together (atl east for the fighting aspect) is very good and fun. I found out that my Tui Shu and Qi Gong Training gave me lots of good sensatory feeling especially for the grappling and the Muay Thai Clinch.

I wrote a lot more than I actually wanted ... keep up the good training and enjoy this beatiful way!

Isn't that how Morihei Ueshiba found his way? He was the equivalent of an MMA figher in his day, initially placing great emphasis on tremendous physical strength and an aggressive fighting style, taking on all comers, and living to WIN! WIN! WIN! Still, he felt deep down that something was missing, and began to dedicate himself more and more to internal cultivation . . . Until he had his great realization, meditating Buddha-like under a tree, and went on to found Aikido. I don't know if Frank Shamrock will ever become an Ueshiba-like figure, but he has definitely evolved. He's neither a one-dimensional fighter nor a one-dimensional person. In a recent interview he also highlighted the importance of meditation, reading, and SERVICE in his life . . . And he also said he's quite skilled at sewing!

So of course an internal art like Aikido has tremendous value, though I think Aikido alone isn't enough to be a complete fighter, as martial arts continue to evolve. However, I think some aspect of that internal cultivation is still essential for full development, including for people who do MMA or train in "hard" styles.

My Aikido teacher is one of the most martial of all the Aikikai Shihans, He's a bad ass and he can back up his Aikido with technique. Actually, most all of the teachers I have studied with are basically martial artists first.

I thought about it but don't think it would be good for me to mix BJJ and Aikido at this point. That said, after I get back to training for maybe a year and build my body up I wouldn't turn down challenges from BJJ dudes or whatever to 'test' my Aikido. My guess is once I add the standing practices I learned from Max in most BJJ guys would have a hard time just taking me to the ground anyway. When you have a really strong root and people can't take you down that pretty much neutralizes BJJ right there.

Comptetition and proving yourself 'better' than others might be fun but for spiritual development Aikido is better because competition and trying to be better than others is discarded right from the beginning(in theory) and you can turn your whole attention to developing body,mind and spirit integration.

Cam

jst bullsht that y have to be all competitive in MA. My teacher throws the belt at me. you don't have to pick it up.
it's tecnique technique technique. it's fun to meditate in action and i'm grateful. realize when your adrenaline kicks in, be honest and enjoy.

BJJ and MMA is a sport. When you realize the difference between sport, reality and spiritual development it puts everything in persective.

As for "real life" stuff. If you can get to the point of Robert Deniro's character here in "Ronin" that's about all you need. I don't want to carry guns but the real bad asses are the ones who can keep there nerves cool even in a life or death situation. My guess is O'Sensei reached that point and then went well beyond it.

link

....................

I think you will be very disapointed when you test your aikido against bjj

I already have. I "rolled" with BJJ Black Belts and I know UFC fighters. One of my best friends is basically the USA representative of Chute Boxe academy in Brazil.

Don't presume you have a clue who anyone is from some internet posts.

I still haven't seen enough evidence to conclude that Aikido is "the best" martial art, whether in competition or self-defense, but I'm glad your Aikido has served you well. I appreciate Aikido from the Jeet Kune Do perspective when it comes to combative techniques ("absorb what is useful, reject what is useless") , but I think more than anything, it has tremendous value as a form of moving meditation.

On another note, I wouldn't be too hasty in dismissing the value of the competitive experience, whether that of a contemporary MMA fighter, or Ueshiba himself. After all, Ueshiba only came to enlightenment after he had gone through the "cocoon" phase of developing a strongly defined personality. He had to develop his ego first in order to transcend it, and competition, for those given to self-reflection, can be a VERY effective means of reaching this end, as Frank Shamrock is apparently discovering now. (Or, to take a more everyday example, I once had a PE teacher who had retired from a much-heralded athletic career to become one of the most spiritual people I've ever met. His classes went sooooo far beyond just "getting in shape." Despite having what could initially appear to be a gruff manner, he had a genuine sense of service and a genuine sense of compassion for ALL his students, not just the athletic stars.)

I think Lozen once said elsewhere that she found a lot of Aikido guys to be very passive-aggressive. I wouldn't be surprised if that's true in at least some cases. Men (especially men) who don't have that ego-developing experience like Ueshiba are often full of resentment. They haven't transcended their aggression, they've just suppressed it, and it can come out it in some ugly ways. I've also noticed this among some New Age men who are into energy work. At any rate, I tend to be suspicious of people who claim they've jumped to the top of the spiritual pyramid and reached a state of desirelessness, if they haven't had much experience of actually chasing their desires and attaining at least some of them prior to their supposed enlightenment. Those who have intensely pursued their goals are in a position to judge what efforts have been or still are worthy; such people--again, if self-reflective--are less likely to live with bitterness, regrets, or any kind of second-guessing about the course they took in life.

Just my two cents worth. I think anyone who does the requisite "inner work"--no matter what the undertaking--can become balanced, i.e. develop strength of character (not to be confused with unchecked egotism) and peace (not to be confused with *suppressed* egotism).

Hope this makes sense--I'm posting in haste. Hmm . . . Would you say that Aikido helps you to post with more poise, Cameron?

well,how did it go when you rolled agaist bjj black belts?

Let's please not turn this into another which martial art is the best thread for the love of Tao.

I have very strong hips..so if you are trying to take me down unless your Jacare or Fedor or Randy Couteur or something it's probably not happening.

That said, I respect BJJ-like I said it's not about which art is best-I even entertained going back to BJJ but I am 32 now and don't feel like going to war every night with college kids on steroids.

BJJ practitioners would beat most Aikido pracitioners..but my Aikido teacher is not most Aikido pracitioners. Unless your Matt Hughes level take downs you would get spanked.

Again..I am more interested in mind,body, spirit unification training at this point and imho Aikido-under a true master-beats BJJ in that department.

For self defense fast purpouses..go get your BJJ purple belt and stop talking shit on Taobums

I have very strong hips..so if you are trying to take me down unless your Jacare or Fedor or Randy Couteur or something it's probably not happening.


hehe,what have strong hips to do with takedown defense to do? Strong hips is good when you are on the bottom on the ground ,for bumping up making space for an escape.but bjj is mostly technique.Thats why randy couture had big problem with taking little bj penn down on training.But who am I to tell you,you are already on level with Randy,Jacare and Fedor

skykklelpunk,

I am done talking about this.

1. I never said Aikido is better than BJJ
2. I never said I was on the level of Fedor or Randy

Your obviously a shit talking, internet key board warrior putting words in my mouth. This is the last I am saying on this thread. I am sure you would just totally school me with your BJJ skills if we met if that makes you feel better.

Cam

You seem a little agressiv Cam,maybe you shouldent train martial arts at all

Wrong again!

Aikido gives me the opportunity to work on myself without dealing with overly aggressive ego's on too much testosterone who want to choke eachother out.

Thus..the Aikido way enables agressive martial artist types like me to develop themselves over many years and aspire to a higher level of love and peace.

Dealing with Skykklepunks is another level of development that probably many masters(not saying I am one!) probably won't acheive in this lifetime.

Best!

Hehe,I thougt you just said you was done talking about this.But since you`re not.you never answered how it did go when rolling against allt those black belts you know?

peace

Watch from :59 here especially. Where Royce Gracie repeatedly tries to take Sakuraba down - to humiliating effect. At :59, he even hangs completely off Sakuraba - as he just stands there in his base going nowhere.

It's true, it can definitely be harder to take someone down than to get taken down. Takedowns just often look easy in MMA because a fighter who feels comfortable on the ground doesn't feel the need to resist going there. In fact, many even prefer going down and playing the ground game instead of stand-up. So, many of these guys aren't resisting the takedown itself, just fighting for position as they go down..

I do think takedowns work better when incorporated in a striking approach - like in san shou. In fact, when Frank Shamrock first started training with san shou champ Cung Le, he got his ass tossed all over the ring like a ragdoll!

Can't we all just get along?

peace

"I have very strong hips..so if you are trying to take me down unless your Jacare or Fedor or Randy Couteur or something it's probably not happening."


I'm sorry but that is utterly,fantastically absurd.
There are hundreds if not thousands of college and even high school wrestlers who would have no problems taking you or I down..no matter how many hindu squats you can do or how much you imagine yourself rooted to the earth.

Also takedowns are more effective with striking and Aikido is less effective when striking is added.

edit

peace

I would like to balance out this weak ass discussion with a video of a true warrior..Muhammed Ali.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=24...63388&hl=en

nice video cam

edit

I am very tired of your stupid post.i could go on forever telling you how stupid you are,but you are to stupid to understand.read your own post and try to understand.my last word

peace.