Here's an interesting site that sounds a lot like kunlun.

Shuichuan

definetely does, interesting article.



that makes a lot of sense to me (me?)

thanks, nice site, keeping it.
caught interest in your post, because my greatest pleasure these days
are the spontaneous movements.
I have no ideas in my head, just follow the natural moves of the body.
It is not the mind expressing itself, but reflections from the body

the same as sitting meditation of the mind..
meditation in movement.

Yep likewise !

Did anyone tried this system out or ever bought the course online ?

Also when meditation in movement was mentioned above i thought of sumthing else i read about here on the forum: the running meditation .. about keep running hours on an end in a meditative state. A shamanistic practice i dunno ?

Wanted to ask if anyone knows more about this practice also ?

Max taught it at the kunlun seminar. You stand on your toes with your heels touching and your hands over head in a particular mudra while activating the kunlun energy. He said the Taoists used it to run 200 miles in a night. This ability is also mentioned in Opening The Dragon Gate.

american indian tradition as well. legs like pistons. use the space between upright and wuji. soft feet cupping and aligning.

Sorry to post this here but it didn't seem worthwhile to start q new topic.
Spectrum what is your avatar.
A cowboy sitting on an ostrich?
It's too small for me to see.
I make out what appears to be steps in the background.

YippeKaYeah!

Click to view attachment

Reminds me of a vacation slide show where you're explaining things that
are visually in your mind and not in the projected slide.
Anyhoo enlarging your avitar does not bring it anymore into focus.

... Riding The Ostrich ...

Have you ever noticed how the hippies had a very "spontaneous", or free form way of dancing, back in the 60's.? They had a little "acid qigong' thing going on there.

Transmission by LSD! Sounds like trouble.

Interesting...and after holding that pose for some time...then you drop it and start running?

I'd like to hear more actual student feedback, though..

So, who's going to give this course a test-spin? NZD$250.00 or $192 USD.

You stand on your toes with your heels touching and your hands over head in a particular mudra while activating the kunlun energy!

This is interesting anyone know the mudra or tried this?

Actually, this isn't any different IMHO from the higher/est levels of Qi Gong of any style. The ultimate goal is always Wu Wei or formlessness and/or spontaneous flow. I definitely think that the practice of this even at early stages is very beneficial. However, learned forms are also essential for one very important reason:

Both the physical body and energetic body gets trapped into patterns or habits... sometimes to such an extent that to do anything other than that pattern is completely outside the energetic or physical consciousness. Thus, a person may move freely/spontaneously, but it will tend to be in the context of known movement patterns because these are what feel most natural and are naturally followed by your energy (following the easiest path like water which will choose to go around a hard object if it can rather than through it). It is similar to expression through speech... I may speak spontaneously, but I'm not likely to use words I don't already use on a dail basis... thus the flow will be restricted by the boundaries of known patterns. So, learning specific forms either through a teacher or (even better) through personal investigation of your own patterns and boundaries (becoming more self aware of your habits and patterns) is essential to expanding the boundaries of your expression (expanding your vocabulary). To be effective, both paths should be walked simultaneously. Learn knew movements, and learn to move into and between all known patterns spontaneously and fluidly. This is Wu Qi, or Wu Xing Qi if you prefer .

I just started the Shuichuan course.

It's done standing up, which is a nice change of pace from kunlun. I'll keep ya'll updated on how it goes.

I've been taking the course with my wife since June. I like the course and the teacher Elisabeth is pretty good.
She puts a lot of thought into the emails she writes to us. The course covers a lot of things like Zi Fa Gong (spontaneous movement meditation), Shuichuan Divination, and Wai Qi Healing. You also to learn to become aware of your inner animal forces that protect and help you. My wife and I both like the course. Craig

Does it sound similar to Kunlun and generate spontaneous movements? Would you recommend the course? Thank you...

Hey craig, can you tell a bit more about the contents, is it several excercises or 1 mainposture or ? Whats Shuichuan Divination ? is the system powerfull, what are the results with you ?

Kind regards, a curious Mike

I really appreciate your post WuXingQi! (better late than never)

It's equivalent in Yoga is Kundalini:

http://website.lineone.net/~dr.mgm/kundalini.html

http://www.padmacahaya.com/Kundalini/Kund3.html

the body gets informed by the chi. the mind has nothing to do with it.

doing spontaneous, one will find oneself doing all kinds of completely unfamiliar movements.

later on, one may well stumble across these movements described and discover they are well established practises.

this is because practises arent 'thought up'

they originate from the chi.

bindo, you are right free form dancing is a practise in itself, if one is in tune with forces outside the self whilst dancing. if one lets go. like a hippie!

I would recommend the Shuichuan course. Elisabeth is a very good teacher and is patient with her students even if it is by internet for the correspondence students. She gave my wife some healings to get rid of some negative energy that was effecting her. There are several techniques that are taught in the course.

The beginning exercise is called Zi Fa Gong (spontaneous movement meditation). It is taught standing but I have found that I can do it laying down, sitting, and also walking. I like the course. I can definitely feel the energy when I am practicing it.

I also learned Kunlun. At first the energy felt different. Now though sometimes the energy seems like it comes from the same source. I guess the energies of the two have mixed for me. Craig

Thanx alot Craig, looks very intresting. I know zi fa gong, free chiflow, its very powerfull certainly over time and great for cleaning up the energetic system and healing yourself. I think i gonna give the course a try.

Regards, Mike

way cool thread!!

While I haven't tried other techniques aside from Kunlun, I strongly suspect that they are all essentially the same energy.

Now that I've had more exposure to Kunlun, I can give a stronger recommendation for "Shaking Medicine" by Keeney. He really does a great job unpacking all of this and is the best single overview of the territory.

I look forward to hearing more about people's Shuichuan experiences!

Craig and Scott, I'd love to be able to do Kunlun without moving and I know that is a natural development down the road but if the Shuichuan technique can make that happen sooner let me know.

Your pal,
Yoda

(for anyone just tuning in, there is debate as to whether spontaneous chikung is compatible with kundalini and other practices, so just keep that in mind.)



Btw, I was reading in Shaking Medicine (paraphrased): had the Shakers known about the Bushman pump, they would have taken their practice up another whole notch.

I am of the opinion that new spontaneous movements will just arise when one is ready. Keeney seems to suggest that if they had known this one move, they could have gone further with their practice.

Anyone know what the bushman pump looks like?



(for anyone just tuning in, Yoda ain't right... you are supposed to just let the process unfold naturally on its own time.)

riding the ostrich..doing the the "hippie hippie shake", & "the ethiopean hip
and shoulder dance" ..

start with qigong and the spontaneous qigong appears by it self. its in the nature of qigong.

I know nothing of the system posted but know a little about "spontaneous qigong"
The system I teach is called Stillness-Movement. It requires a student to learn to "stop the world", i.e., we have to eliminate the mind from the equation. Then the Teacher projects certain vibrational energy to the student which initiates movement. After that, the student continues to practice. As long as they go home and practice, this continues to build and can be quite powerful. If they go home and think about it without the practice then they have waisted my time and theirs.

Re: Running Qigong

I teach running qigong.
Running Qigong was the very hardest qigong system I ever learned. But the steps are actually easy. There are 4 components of the system. Stamina, Lightness (yes, the techniques you saw on Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon are demonstrative of the Lightness technique - but of course not real), Qi Pushing, and Swiftness. These are the techniques the old Taoist travelers utilized to cover great distances. A corresponding technique they used was a type of qi projection used to scare away animals that wanted to eat them as they were traveling in the wilderness. This technique works quite well.

Yoda,

I was told Shuichuan is compatible with any other practice as long as they're not done around the same time.

Also, it seems that being in the Shuichuan state without moving is taught early on. I wasn't taught it yet.

Here is a video of me on day 2 of my practice...a lot of kunlun movements still in there. Now they've settled, and I've started walking in a counter clockwise circle spontaneously...then allowing myself to fall when dizzy to ground the energy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSZXWb7hSCo

Embarrassing.

Also, I found this on the WKK forums....



So the energy from this practice should be the same as in Kunlun. Self manifested.

I'll agree with Ya Mu here in his description of Spontaneous qigong. I'm not a big fan of this exercise because it seem like nilly willy kind of exercise. I think it is necessary to be under a Master's guidance because I have heard this can be a dangerous exercise.

I prefer standing exercises, Zhan Zhuang, which I gotten the most out of.

I was at WKK's seminar in Orlando last weekend, and he really stressed that the spontaneous part of the practice is the most important part of his system, and is what separates really doing qigong from just doing physical exercises. He suggested that a beginner do 60% forms and 40% spontaneous, and then gradually increase the percentage of spontaneous. He said that a master might only do 10% forms and 90% spontaneous. And he did say that it should be learned under the supervision of a master or at least a qualified teacher. By the way, the 18 Lohans that he taught did include the 8 section brocade as the first 8, and 10 additional movements on day 2. It was not the kung fu form of the same name, but was a very cool qigong set. The venue where the course was held was great. It overlooked a lake and had lots of trees with Spanish moss hanging down!

Wait, so he had a seminar for 18 Lohans and for the first 8 he did 8 Brocades?

Sounds like a mis-representation to me.

I'm happy you liked the seminar but based on what you have said I definately would have been upset about this.

Hi Ya Mu

Running qigong; with qi pushing and swiftness sounds like something I would love to study. may I ask your advice about where to find a teacher? in europe or thailand?

As all my teachers are no longer carnate here in this dimensional space I know of no one else that teaches this. Here is info on my next workshop.

Get me enough students together and I will teach wherever.
But bear in mind the Running Qigong is a part of the whole system I teach and I really see no way for it to be separated. One has to first practice the Stillness-Movement Qigong. That said, I'm really tired of the "secret" thing and will be glad to show you the simple techniques involved in Running Qigong if you take one of my workshops.

The website does not provide a lot of details (or does it and I could not find it?)

- Details of the course: what it involves, like a curriculum
- The price for the course (the website does not seem to mention)
- It does speak of online lessons, is that through Skype or some other Video chat?

Craig or Scotty,

What do you think is the difference between this and Kunlun? Thank you...

Hey Ya Mu, thanx for the info. This system sounds really intresting. Aswell the skills as the qi emitting to scare animals !

I also read about lunggompa runners in Tibet who become in a trance state by there practice and run immense distance really fast with big leaps while focussing on a star. It was said its not a good idea to stop such a runner, they dont even notice you are there (Magic and mystery in Tibet by Alexandra D. Neel). Its an honor becomming one and takes years of meditation and spiritual practice under a master.

Regards, Mike

I enjoyed learning both Kunlun and Shuichuan. It was fun taking the workshops and privates with Max while he gave them. I have more recently enjoyed taking the Shuichuan course. When I was studying with Max and taking the privates, I noticed a lot of mystical type things happening. Shuichuan is taught by email lessons from the teacher Elisabeth. A transmission is also given that way. Shuichuan is practical in that you learn things on how to help you with day to day life. For example, besides the spontaneous movement meditation practice, a divination technique to help you with decisions is taught. Healing is taught. A way to connect with your animal spirits is taught. I am also learning how to protect against negative energy. I enjoyed taking the course the last few months. Craig

Thanks for answering I just briefly visited your site and will read more of whats recommended. I'm already enrolled in a whole system of medical qigong in Scandinavia. But as I said, you made me curious as to learn more. thanks.

Yust orderd the course, very curious

I shouldn't have revived this topic so soon....hopefully Elisabeth isn't overwhelmed with students.

lol sorry

It's all good I'm just kidding....I think you'll enjoy it, minkus.

I took the kunlun seminar in NJ and could only make the saturday part so I guess this was taught on sunday. Is there a video that shows this position? How do you activate the kunlun energy when in this position? Since nobody wants to run 200 miles a night what is the main purpose of this practice and why would I want to add it to my kunlun?

Now with modern transportation, I doubt there's any reason to practice it aside of just for kicks.

Hey are you sure?

With this great economy n all tht

Man, you kunloonies jump around from one teacher to the next especially when you gave Max so much of a high standard and making him out to be a god like figure here. I dont understand why you are leaving his practice all of a sudden? What is missing from his knowledge if he has the Golden Flower of Eygpt, Maoshan, Tibean Thunder practices, etc? What are you guys truly after, i just dont understand how one minute you are so close and protective and im sure you still are but now you are all leaving him for other stuff?

Is there any particular reason why, is it him or the spontaneous kunlun you dont like or something else just curious?

Not starting an arguement just very curious why some of his hardcore supporters are moving on to similar or different things all of a sudden?

Ape

Who is leaving? I know I am definately not but I am also wondering the same thing because the people most enthusiastic about kunlun seem to practice it long term so I am in this for the long haul. But there must be a reason this position is being taught other than helping you run 200 miles which we know is bs anyways.

I didn't say he was a god-like figure or anything like that. I've always stayed true to what I think. If you don't believe me, look back at my old posts and try to find anything where I make Max out to be god-like.

I still consider myself as a kunlun practitioner. I like RP and think it's an amazing spiritual practice. Probably the most powerful I've ever come across. I like some of the other practices too.

I took Shuichuan to explore more spontaneous movement practices. I was wanting to go see Jenny Lamb but didn't have money at the time. It turned out that doing so revealed some things to me about why the way it's practiced in Kunlun isn't good for me. That's all.

And: I'm myself before I'm a kunluner. I can do anything I want...take as many teachers as I want. It's a great way to learn and expand my knowledge...I see nothing wrong with it.



I know it's hard for you to understand many things, Spirit Ape...but I will tell you: I'm truly after finding the best spiritual/health/whatever else practice. I want to have my cake and eat it too.



I like Max. I don't like the way spontaneous qigong is practiced in kunlun....at least for myself.



I wasn't so much of a hardcore supporter, as I was someone just arguing against stupidity. For example: saying that the transmission is a worm.

Thanks scotty, i do consider you a hardcore supporter of Max's Kunlun and reading back through your post you and I bumped heads. There is nothing wrong with finding many good teachers I was just curious as to why and not just yourself mate, that many people have or are moving on in a similar direction to what you are doing still staying with spontaneous movement which is great for you anyway. Some are doing the Bushman shaking some this new shuichuan system plus others. I know Cameron was trying or going back and forth with Zazen as well other stuff as he was considering doing many types with Max art!

Anyway im not having a dig at you or anyone else was just curious after all these months of supporting and us arguing about things that you have moved on that is all and like i said there is nothing wrong with that. Good luck with your journey man!

Spirit Ape

Okay.

True! We all need to experiement, give things a shot and decide what works. While I do believe that the divine power does lead one towards their true calling, I also think that the Lady Above does not like lazy ones who expect her to do everything for them.

It does seem Scott did just that... try, experiement and decide what the practice gave him. In fact, Yoda and Scott are the non-hardcore ones ..

Thanks SV! Scott and Yoda pretty much rock out...