I am just curious of others thoughts and opinions, on what constitutes enlightenment, and how one knows when one is enlightened.

Because if I post my personal opinion on such complex metaphysical topic I'd be given an answer according to existing traditions and schools of thought I am going to give you two links that might shed some light on your query:

http://www.urbandharma.org/ibmc/ibmc2/sudden.html
http://www.kusala.org/udharma6/enlightnirvana.html


On the other hand, once I came across an online Buddhist site that contained a more traditional view of what enlightenment would entail from a supramundane perspective. However I didn't bookmark it but I still remember some details of what was said in it:

1. Sudden realization of all lifetimes
2. Ability of see all worlds, astral and celestial
3. Etc.

However, you shall not seek these as they are basically siddhis, which in turn will enforce our egos and deviate us from the path toward spiritual enlightenment.

One is enlightened in a Taoist sense when one can grasp Te, and through it Wu Wei, leading to harmony with the Tao. How to know when you're enlightened is a bit of a trick question, because when you are enlightened, the question won't be important anymore. Thomas Merton described it quite nicely in his paraphrasing of Chuang Tzu:

THE TRUE MAN

What is meant by a "true man"?
The true men of old were not afraid
When they stood alone in their views.
No great exploits. No plans.
If they failed, no sorrow.
No self-congratulations n success.
They scaled cliffs, never dizzy.
Plunged in water, never wet.
Walked through fire and were not burnt.
Thus their knowledge reached all the way
To Tao.

The true men of old
Slept without dreams,
Woke without worries.
Their food was plain.
They breathed deep.
True men breathe from their heels.
Others breathe with their gullets,
Half-strangled. In dispute
They heave up arguments
Like vomit.

Where the fountains of passion
Lie deep
The heavenly springs
Are soon dry.

The true men of old
Knew no lust for life,
No dread of death.
Their entrance was without gladness,
Their exit, yonder,
Without resistance.
Easy come, easy go.
They did not forget where from,
Nor ask where to,
Nor drive grimly forward
Fighting their way through life.
They took life as it came, gladly;
Took death as it came, without care;
And went away, yonder,
Yonder!

They had no mind to fight Tao.
They did not try, by their own contriving,
To help Tao along.
These are the ones we call true men.

I think enlightenment is earmarked by the ejaculation of a genie during masturbation.

hahahaha

ROFLAO

My buddy Greg took a snapshot at the exact moment of my enlightenment:

One doesn't know.
If you know you are not enlightened.

He who knows not, knows.
He who knows, knows not.

the ejaculation of a genie is a siddhi, do not be burdened by this if it happens to you, it will go away in time.

Then all you need to do is buy the "Superpower Chi Balls" in the Google ads at the top of the page.

If there is an "I" here to define and experience enlightment, then "I" am not there yet.

tru, dat.

wonderful! wonderful!

cool,

One of my Aikido teachers-who grew up in Tibet-told me many years ago when I was getting into Zen and taking this whole business of awakening very seriously.

"It's not mysterious. You just do whatever it is that you are doing. You let go in each moment into whatever life gives you".

He made a point he had not reached that point-yet-but he had done enough training-years growing up in Tibet and years training in Japan-that I trust him.

Here is a clip of him in action in NYC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQxPlkd2Css

I've not heard about the genie thing before... I'll keep my eyes peeled!

It would be a shame to accidently squash the dude in kleenex or something...

hahahaahahaa

Maybe when one is no longer compelled to post things?

Seriously, though, the quest for enlightenment is never ending, so it can't be encapsulated with just the 'genie stage' or the 'non-ego' stage or anything.

But if you need a quick and dirty definitive definition, it's the ability to stop one's heart at will.

thats deep man... and you never even said a word.

You know, if Ron Jeremy were still around, he'd have a picture for you.

i think you know when you're enlightened. the Buddha knew, or maybe buddhists have different definition of enlightenment than taoists? it is a pretty broad term.

to me, its when you stop thinking with your ego, completely let go, and just be in the present moment. completely engulfed in eternity.

Yee-oowwww!

mbanu!!, good to hear from you!
Long time, where have you been???

You're enlightened when you're really really angry, instead of just grumpy.

h

DElighte(n)d

"Enlightenment has nothing to do with enlightenment experience" - perfect!

Enlightenment is not a state of altered consciousness, enlightenment is the natural state of all things.

From the position of enlightenment every other state will be a state of altered conscious.

The most altered state of consciousness is the egoic state of consciousness (watching true the ego) .. you perceive things that arent there: enemy, duality, self image.. while there even isnt a self, the thought thinking about this self-image is the closest by a self you can find.

If you really want an altered state of consciousness .. ego is the best you can get ! stick with it !



HAHA, this guy knows what he is talking about


Also thanx for posting the nice picture Trunk, reminds me of this very known poëm from William Blake:

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wildflower:
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.



Regards !

I've been around, I just have less to say nowadays.

I'll keep my eyes shielded.

One knows one is enlightened when one is aware of of the self in the Tao.

An excellent distillation of enlightenment in that video, sean. Thanks. Paraphrasing..."it's the quality of the enlightenment experience that determines how well one will carry it into their life". Straight up.

one is enlightened when one becomes aware that one is irrelevant.

Your posting of your post undermines your post bean! A true master you are indeed!

How did you get that out of what he said? I think it was something more like "All that really matters with an enlightenment experience is how much of the egoic consciousness drops away, because thats what you live with." My memory is probably just as flawed as yours though. Makes one wonder about the sutras and bible and whatnot, doesn't it? Written years after the fact. We're writing minutes after the fact. Though if a disciple got the message, their pointing would be spot on as well.

One would be amused if one was not aware that one is irrelevant. Yet in being aware of aforementioned irrelevance, has not one manifested the relevance of one to one's awareness?

One has a headache.

Profundity is overrated. I prefer pancakes.

I will take a stack of Pancakes over enlightenment any day myself.

Of course...that view might change at some point

Yo Father Paul,

Pass the Syrup this Way

We'll hit that stack at dawn.

Spectrum

How did you not understand what I wrote? Allow me me to put it more plainly...the quality of an enlightenment experience is determined by the amount of of ego lost in the experience.

Better now?

I thought I understood what were trying to say, but the words were something else. Tiny little differences, sometimes make a big difference.

I miss the dude.


We've noted that Cam. Yet you wouldn't be a proper Cam if you were not a bit eccentric.

Peace,

me too
you know his poems are online?
I read them from time to time.
Sometimes I wonder like: what would fatherpaul have thought of this..

waahh!
sniff sniff