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mikaelz
http://members.tripod.com/internalart/home/immortality.htm
really interesting article.. what do you guys think?


QUOTE
There are two Taoist approaches to immortality: 1) Outer Alchemy, and 2) Inner Alchemy. Outer alchemy works from the outside in, while inner alchemy works from the inside out. It is the same as the difference between external and internal martial art. Generally speaking, outer alchemy strengthens the physical body first with moving meditation, and various herbal formulas. Inner alchemy on the other hand, strengthens the energetic body first with still meditation and cultivating the chi. Although the 2 approaches are different, they are usually used together to complement each other in self-cultivation. This is the same dual-approach that we recommend and encourage here in this web site. Tai Chi Chuan is an excellent example and model of this dual- approach.

Taoists often value the number "3" because the principle to immortality is derived from the "Three Treasure of the Universe". The 3 treasures of the universe are Heaven, Earth, and Mankind. And each "treasure" contains its own three treasures. The 3 treasures of Heaven are the sun, moon, and stars. The 3 treasures of Earth are fire, water, and air. The 3 treasures of mankind are chi, jing, and shen.

Chi, as described earlier, is the life force energy. Jing can be translated as Essence. Jing is the Original Chi that was given to us from our parents. Jing is often named as Pre-birth, Pre-heaven chi, or Sexual energy. Shen is the name for our spiritual-self. When our spirit is raised to the head, our vitality can be seen through the brightness of our eyes.

In order to receive immortality, we must work on our three treasures to raise our spiritual energy and refined it to the same level, or frequency as the Tao. We live and interact in this physical 3 dimensional world to learn and nourish ourselves to achieve Realization. But our physical body dose not last forever. When our physical body fail, our energy will leave our body. It may be recycled into a new body through reincarnation, but then we might not see Realization until our new bodies are physically and mentally matured. That might be a waste of time and resources, because a new life takes tremendous amount of time, energy resources, and caring. So in order to continue our "education", the Taoist says, "why not build spiritual body?" that way our spirit has a place to reside, even after our bodies have failed us. The spiritual self then lives forever, thus Immortality. Another advantage for having a spiritual body is that it has transcended the limit of a physical body. The spiritual body can go where the physical body can’t – the Fourth Dimension, time. So Taoists proposed an immortal formula: first, use the chi to nourish our jing. Secondly, transform the jing into refined chi. Afterward, use this refined chi to build up the shen. Then reunite the shen with the Tao.

To summarize this transformational process, it is usually separated into a number of different stages. The amount of stages depends on the system of teaching.

.The first stage: "Using the Post-birth chi to nourish the Pre-birth chi"

Post-birth chi is the energy we consume from our environment through the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the subtle energy from the universe. We use this Post-birth chi to nourish our Pre-birth energy, our Original chi. To build up and strengthen our Original chi also means we must conserve it, because to save also means you must cut down on your spending. Therefore it is recommended that men should stop ejaculation to conserve their Essence (jing), while women need to regulate the menstrual cycle to conserve their Essence. (We will discuss more about these energy conservation techniques later.) The Microcosmic orbit and chi cultivation techniques are taught in this stage.

.The second stage: "Transferring jing to chi"

When the jing is full from the nourishment of chi conservation and cultivation, we will transfer it into chi. One might ask why? Why even bother changing chi into jing in the first place, when you have to change it back to chi anyhow? The answer is simple. When you transform jing into chi, it is refined. It is refined to the level where your body can easily digest or store for further application. It can be compared to the process where your liver transforms sugar into glucose, where your body can either store it or digest it. The liver removes excess glucose from your system; then it is stored until it is needed. Similarly, the dantien can store excess or extra chi until it is needed. This stage of transforming jing into chi is sometimes called "Water and Fire" meditation. It is expressed by the sixty-third hexagram, "ji ji". In this hexagram, water is on top of the fire. Water means our sexual energy. Fire means the fire in the cauldron, the Real Dantien. (Fire can also be interpreted as the fire of the heart) When fire is below water, the water will boil and steam. So the hexagram "water above fire" means steaming the sexual energy, jing. Steam is light, so it moves upward to the head. This process is equivalent to the Indian Yoga’s kundalini awakening. Kundalini is merely a different name for jing. The Taoist system teaches us to bring the "steam" down to the dantien. Like water vapor that is condensed into cloud and come down as rain. When the rain comes down, we will store it at the dantien. Dantien literally means "elixir farm". After the rain, we will have harvest. What do we harvest? The pill of immortality! That is where the name dantien came from. The environment, we created at the dantein, where the Heavenly chi and Earth chi can interact and mix, are called "The reunion of Heaven and Earth". The intercourse of Heaven and Earth will give birth to the "Spiritual Fetus", which will develop into what we called the Spiritual body. Water and Fire meditation is taught along with the opening of the other 6 Extraordinary Channels in this stage.

.The third stage: "Transferring chi into shen"

Once you have achieved the first two stages, you will have an abundant amount of energy to nourish your "spiritual baby". This stage can be divided into 3 steps. The first step is to nourish this spiritual fetus for ten months just as a real pregnancy. We will feed it with the energy from Universal chi, Earth chi, and Cosmic chi. Because the vitality of our spiritual body, or baby, is heavily dependent on its nourishment during the pregnancy, we should be careful of what kind of energy we feed it with. Of course we will want the best for our "baby". After the ten month period, we will move the fetus to the upper dantien and give birth to this spiritual baby.

The second step is to nurse the baby for three years. During this 3 year nursery, the baby should never leave the physical body far, or for a long time, because it is still young and premature. In this stage we can catch a glimpse of the Fourth Dimension, or the Immortal realm, but distance traveling is still not recommended.

The third step is the nine years of education. The spiritual body can now travel further each time with practice. During this nine year period, we will teach it everything we know, and help it to become independent.

.The fourth stage: "Return the shen to the Tao"

After the nine years of exploring, the spiritual body can now travel freely. It is time to return to the Tao. You now can transcend space and time without any limitation. You have transformed into a true immortal.


(Stage--Methods--Time)

Using Post-birth chi to nourish the Pre-birth chi -- Chi cultivation, chi kung , opening the Microcosmic orbit--3 to 6 months

Transferring jing to chi-- Water and Fire meditation,opening of the other 6 extra channels--100 days

Transferring chi to shen --10 month pregnancy,3 year nursery,9 years of education--13 years

Return the shen to the Tao-- Exploration of the 4th dimension-00

DarinHamel
I've been wondering lately if these stages are concurrent or if you can do 100 day one year and then two years later do the 10 months and a year later the 3 years and then five years later do the 9 years. I really like this article.
WuXingQi
I can leave my body on a fairly regular basis (although it's usually quite draining so I generally avoid it) and "travel". These experiences started when I was young (around 13) and doing Dan Tien focus breathing. However, I do not think this makes me an "immortal" any more than any other human being is. I think these are just beliefs created as an attempt at interpretation of experiences that come naturally when one cultivates inner awareness and personal energy gathering and manipulation.
DarinHamel
Theres two types of OBE's. One is the yin body that is like a ghost and cant be seen. Everyone has that one and is the most common to read about in esoteric literature.

The second is the yang body and thats the one that when it leaves the body it is from the top of the head, looks like a candle flame and when it re-enters the head the entire body feels like it is burning and it also radiates light bright enough to read by.

At least thats what I understand it to be according to traditional Taoist literature. I had hundreds of spontaneous OBE's and started the Taoist Alchemy to stop them which it did. I dont have the yang body though. Maybe someday...
darebak
I'm no expert but it looks like another incomplete, out of context and just plain wrong summary of San Bao method to me. This one goes south in the first sentence.
And then the part about kundalini... rolleyes.gif
mikaelz
i've really yet to see a good explanation of kundalini from the taoist perspective.

this is actually what draws me more to hindu/tantra because kundalini is a very real phenomena and many get it spontaneously
WuXingQi
QUOTE(DarinHamel @ Dec 2 2007, 11:16 AM) *

The second is the yang body and thats the one that when it leaves the body it is from the top of the head, looks like a candle flame and when it re-enters the head the entire body feels like it is burning and it also radiates light bright enough to read by.

At least thats what I understand it to be according to traditional Taoist literature. I had hundreds of spontaneous OBE's and started the Taoist Alchemy to stop them which it did. I dont have the yang body though. Maybe someday...


Interesting... not quite sure I follow the differences, but perhaps just because I'm ignorant. In most of my OBE's I do feel as if I'm leaving via the top of my head, but I do not feel myself re-entering/integrating through the top of the head. On one occasion I had a very energetic return in which my physical body was lying face down on the floor (I had been doing meditation and rolled over before leaving my body... oddly it's easier for me to actually leave while on my side or stomache). As I re-entered my home and came down on my body I tried lying down with my energy body's back side down while my physical body was face down. As I tried to enter a ton of orange and red sparks started flying all over the edges of my bodies where they were touching, and I began to feel very strong energy sensations. I couldn't quite get myself integrated until I flipped around face down and then I phased back into the physical.

It would be interesting to know/understand the difference between a yin body and a yang body while out of body. I do know that it is very draining for me to leave my physical body unless I've built up a lot of yang qi in my dan tien. If I do it too frequently it feels like having sex too frequently and I sometimes get sick. Early on I learned not to do this too frequently because of that unless I spend time charging up first.
Ben Koontz
http://www.damo-qigong.net/
They have a good explanation of this process and they have face to face training on the internal alchemy.

I hope this helps,

Ben
rain
clean.
very beautiful.


thank you. Ben Koontz.
xuesheng
method after method after method....
Why can't I find what I never lost?
smile.gif
rain
aahh so well put xuesheng...

love to you

watching all of you thousands..
...what individual creative LIFE!!

ENJOY!!

I just came from a jazz concert with Jan Bang and Molvær etc. Premium art.
sigh.
smile.

to be able to appreciate INspiration

is also some thing
next to no thing
joeblast
QUOTE(DarinHamel @ Dec 1 2007, 08:03 PM) *

I've been wondering lately if these stages are concurrent or if you can do 100 day one year and then two years later do the 10 months and a year later the 3 years and then five years later do the 9 years. I really like this article.

as I understand, it must all be sequential and none can overlap, each part must be focused on for its requisite time.
WhiteTiger
QUOTE(joeblast @ Dec 14 2007, 10:08 AM) *

as I understand, it must all be sequential and none can overlap, each part must be focused on for its requisite time.


What if it takes you longer then that period of time for a specific stage? can it take longer? if not does anyone know the effects that happen to you?
DarinHamel
QUOTE(WhiteTiger @ Dec 15 2007, 03:37 AM) *

What if it takes you longer then that period of time for a specific stage? can it take longer? if not does anyone know the effects that happen to you?

You fail.
joeblast
I think like with anything, we are all individuals. Those timelines are a general guide and it is the road signs of proper practice that must be followed. The 3 years might take you 5. (Of course, 100 days probably is a relatively rigid one. tongue.gif ) When you meditate, you know you cant go by some clock, I dont believe its any different with the long road in focus. I believe that's why for stuff like this its very helpful to have a master to train with - you have far less of a likelihood of ingraining bad habits or under emphasizing a key point in practice.
DarinHamel
I think they are all pretty rigid. Where does it say in any Taoist alchemy text that you get do-overs or that the timing is flexable? I think I have read every one that is in English and they are all very rigid in their timing.

We need someone to complete the last 9 year phase and then tell us whats really going on.
Mal
QUOTE(DarinHamel @ Dec 16 2007, 04:25 AM) *

I think they are all pretty rigid. Where does it say in any Taoist alchemy text that you get do-overs or that the timing is flexable? We need someone to complete the last 9 year phase and then tell us whats really going on.


Didn't you do a really long training thing? Somebody here did and they were waiting for results earlier in the year or 2006.

All my life I always knew something "unusual" would happen to me when I was 33 and a few day out from my 34 birthday something did happen.

All the signs were there, a strange déjà vu filled day, with conversations recalled from old dreams etc.

But I stuffed it. Wrong choice.

Would really like a do-over. Reincarnation required sad.gif
DarinHamel
Yeah, that was me and nothing happened. I am going over everything again and wanting a serious do-over starting about age 12. No alchemy texts say you get do-overs but I am hoping you can do that and that the cycles repeat so you can start again where you screwed up last time. Now I just need to figure out where I screwed up last time...

Seriously, I love this site and talking to other cultivators even when we disagree. Life is good. smile.gif

QUOTE(Mal @ Dec 17 2007, 12:41 AM) *

All my life I always knew something "unusual" would happen to me when I was 33 and a few day out from my 34 birthday something did happen.

All the signs were there, a strange déjà vu filled day, with conversations recalled from old dreams etc.

But I stuffed it. Wrong choice.

Would really like a do-over. Reincarnation required sad.gif

What happened?
Wun Yuen Gong
LOL Why worry about all that when you can have 100yrs in one sitting of Kunlun? tongue.gif

Tao isnt that complicated is it?? biggrin.gif
xenolith
Great Straight Upward Path.
Mal
QUOTE(DarinHamel @ Dec 18 2007, 08:21 AM) *

What happened?


I believe that I had a chance to restore someone’s belief in the goodness of humanity.
Instead I just reinforced that people are arseholes.

Don't want to share any details, can't see how I could fix things. Lets just say I am very disapointed with myself mad.gif
WhiteTiger
Mal, I'm really sorry to hear you say that. I hope you will one day redeem yourself.
nutting
QUOTE(mikaelz @ Nov 3 2007, 09:04 PM) *

http://members.tripod.com/internalart/home/immortality.htm
really interesting article.. what do you guys think?


Excellent article....it more or less coincides with what my purely Taoist ( no Zen or Buddhism or religious Taoism) teaches says...the only diff is that all 3 conversion processes happen simultaneously....not sequentially.

But there's seems to be no mention of sexual abstinence or dietary changes
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