I hope this is viewed in the spirit of wanting to help make sure the material is presented in the best possible way.

I highly respect Chris and Max. I think the work that they are doing has the potential to create some real positive change in people.

So, with that in mind, I want to create a thread where we can discuss how Kunlun One Workshop might be improved.

So far, it sounds like the response has been mostly positive overall. I know the LA workshop was very powerful. I certainly was moved by it.

But here is MY take on how the material should be presented.

Again, I don't know if this is the right way. All I know is from what I have experienced and my limited understanding of awakening this would be the way to go.

1. Kunlun Level One should focus on just that..Kunlun Level One. We have 2 days. I would say day One should be devoted to Kunlun and Day two devoted to "close down".

If standing practice is included in that fine. My feeling is devoting the first day to Kunlun and 2nd say to close down is enough.

I would even say just SITTING IN SILENCE for an hour and have Max guide us through "close down" would be good.

2. Don't teach sexual practices at Level one. Explain to people sexual energy can be very volitile if there channels arent open and that they should practice Kunlun for atleast a month before drawing sexual energy up the spine. Also..cover the reality people may have serious emotional issues that need to be worked out and in that case they SHOULD NOT DRAW JING UP THE SPINE PERIOD.

3. Do not teach Red Phoenix until after people have practiced Kunlun for atleast 1 year.

That's my 2 cents.

Well, thing is there will never be a one-size-fits-all formula since everyone is different and comes in at different levels. Mileage WILL vary.

I think this revised curriculum would have been great for YOU personally, but overconservative for most other people who weren't as sensitive.

I mean, someone who's really blocked up might get bored spending the whole day 2 closing down...when he hasn't even opened up yet. He won't want more closing time, but more opening time or techniques.

So, I think the best they can do is shoot for the middle of the bell curve and then provide some extra guidance for those who fall too far outside of it (like you). Cater to the majority, tailor for the minority.

I'm sure some extra emphasis can be put on some aspects and cautions due to your experience, though. But due to the nature of our lay lifestyles and workshop culture, we don't have the luxury of time (or money) for overly carefully-metered teachings. We don't meet often regularly, but only once in a while. And there's no guarantees on how long Max will keep teaching these. Therefore, we need more in less time.

Well, just 2 more cents..

Exactly...I am not saying MY WAY is the way to go...just what would have been balanced for me..of course I might be just trapped in my ego as I write this and just still trying to stop my own awakening.

That is always a very real possibilty!

But if you just take ONE THING from my 2 cents I would say having Max(or Chris,or any of Max's female students) guide people through a nice long YIN close down sesshin would be a good thing..I think everyone could benefit from some sitting in silence and sort of just soaking in a little.

But what the hell do I know?

Red Phoenix is the one thing I really really want to learn... Dont know anything about it but I have a feeling I really want to learn it.

what is it?

For me, the seminar was just right. If they teach too little, people will feel cheated and they will stop showing up. It's difficult to teach this kind of thing because people are at different levels of understanding and have different motivations for learning kunlun.

Everyone can make their own personal adjustments after the seminar. Max has taught these practices to many, many people and I'm sure he's received a lot of feedback. I don't understand all of the "second guessing" going on here. As for the Red Phoenix, I don't have a problem with it being taught right away.
It seems like a variation of a very old practice that has been taught openly for a long time. And again, don't you think Max would know, with all of his knowledge and experience, if this practice is too "dangerous" to teach openly?

Imagine hiking around Wudang shan in ancient China when you stumble across an old Taoist Master, with obvious abilities, who promises to teach you a powerful secret qigong technique. So he teaches you and afterwards you say something like;"Ya know, Mr. Master Sir, I think if you would cut that part out, and add a little more of this..." C'mon!

Vortex; well said!

Bindu,

Your assessment is interesting but not really accurate.

Max's disciple Mantra said himself that he was shocked that Max taught Red Phoenix at Level One workshop.

He said ARMIES DIED for the practice.

I am just giving my 2 cents..and what I went through the last 6 weeks was a WILD RIDE. There were moments I really felt afraid that I was losing my sanity.

I am feeling a little better now but still feel my position is the better way to go.

Again I will reiterate that we have provided a luxurious experience compared to the traditional way. With much support and blog-blabbing. Much better that being sent off on your own to figure it all out, as was done since the beginning.

Max knows exactly what he is doing. He is constantly connected to the upper realms and the information he provides is right for the situation. Also, he has HUNDREDS of practices, methods, mudras, mantras, healing techniques and physical forms to teach, so he really tries to give people their money's worth by teaching at least three or four of Earth's highest secret evolutionary practices at each seminar.

We have provided special care for our good friend Cameron and will continue to monitor his progress.

See you next week man.

I was joking around Max obviously knows what is he is doing and everything is perfectly fine.

Move along, nothing to see here...

can you share with red phoenix is?

I hear ya, man! This is a powerful practice, no doubt. It shouldn't be put in the hands of boneheads trying to get off on some natural high, and probably shouldn't be practiced without also practicing kunlun. I'm taking it real slow with this practice, about five minutes at a time.

The way Max described it, you should be very calm and relaxed, and feel the cool, misty energy moving. I only do it every other breath. I feel the energy move thru a very thin pathway, very gently and slowly. The image of a single rain drop on a window, slowly sliding down, comes to mind.

I think if people follow Max's directions and use some common sense, there shouldn't be too many casualties. There are always going to be exceptions, like yourself, when doing energy practices. Especially in the head. For me, the closing procedure for the Red Phoenix seems more important than for Kunlun. I also suspect some people will bring in way too much energy from outside their head, either from a misunderstanding of the practice or unintentionally.

So, you're right, proceeding with caution is necessary, but I wouldn't go so far as to call Max irresponsible for teaching it.

Glad you are having a good time with your practice, man. You are right on.

Also, please keep the details of the Red Phoenix practice to yourself.

Red Phoenix is too much for me. Way too intense..I can barely think and certainly can't hold a job or get anything accomplished with it...I am serious..my last days before I left my job I couldn't do basic things like count money.

So..I am just not doing Red Phoenix for now and focusing exlusively on Level One for a year..that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay enough for me already.

down..down..down..water..water..

Will do Chris!

Disclaimer; Please don't try to practice the Red Phoenix from my very incomplete description. It will only result in your head exploding. And, as far as I know, chicks don't dig that. It will be difficult to get or keep a job, too. And your drivers licence will be revoked. You can't read or anything. No more posting on the tao bums. You'll just sit there. Maybe, just maybe, you can still practice kunlun. I don't know. You'll have to ask Max.

oh cmon stop being so secretive about this red phoenix business!
i won't practice it obviously, i'm just wondering what it is

Red Phoenix is a practice that you do.

It involves yourself.

Also..it involved your body and mind.

In addition..the universe is also involved.

OK?!

I'm wondering too, but we will find out when the time is right. I hope he teaches it in Aus, but it all sounds a bit scary so I don't know if I want it....

Anyhow no need to buy those running shoes yet, still learning to walk

Red Phx is an upper center practice - I assume it's ok to say that much. I haven't been told the dangers explicitly, but I'd assume it'd be typical of powerful upper center practices: risky if you haven't yet got a good anchor. Kunlun level 1 (by my experience, not by anything I've been told) has a lot to do with harmonizing the essence (which has a lot to do with "anchor"), that's why it's "1" (I assume, haven't been told, but that's the typical Taoist way).

LoL!





well, of course you do! it's the forbidden fruit that no one (not even myself) is divulging. not because it's a powerful secret, but because no good will come from it, as far as i'm concerned.

if you're gonna go the Max route, then the kunlun practice is the one that matters. red phoenix is almost like the technique for people who don't have a lot of time for cultivation, but still want to enjoy some shitty side-effects.

I agree with Hundun.

And I am sticking to my guns.

Red Phoenix should not be taught at Level One.

And that's the last time I am saying that.

The more you talk about it the more people are gonna be intrested in it, it will be a question of me on the first seminar in Europe well that and some more info on this burning palm practice !

Regards.

I would lik to know what Max is teaching as Burning Palm cause i also teach it and it also has 9 levels i would be interested where and whom he learnt it from??

At what level are you Wun Yuen Gong and can you give a littlebit more info ?

I am a little confused. Is 'Red Phoenix' a practice taught in the book 'Pillars of Bliss' and/or in one of the three levels of Kunlun? Is that one of the techniques of Kunlun?

If not, is Kunlun not complete in itself and requires some complimentary practices like this one as well? What I am trying to understand is the relationship between Kunlun and Red Phoenix and the need for latter as Kunlun has been described as the 'Ultimate' tool for enlightenment. What other complimentary practices are required along with Kunlun?

Lol, good one....

I mentioned this before when the same question came up a few days ago. Max told me the following during a private session. If you combine Kunlun with the Red Phoenix you can eventually attain a golden dragon body which is the highest state a Daoist can attain. Max said that none of his Kunlun or Maoshan teachers had been able to do this but when he combined the two practices (Kunlun and Red Phoenix) he discovered that one could attain the golden dragon body. Craig

- So, is this something that is taught only in the workshop and not in the book?
- Also, do any other teachers teach Red Phoenix?

I would be obliged if you can point me to some reading material on what the 'Golden Dragon Body' is and what the differences are between what is achievable by Kunlun alone and with Kunlun+Red P combined. Thanks again.

Well, I think your experience is certainly very valuable as a precedent for others who might fall down the same path later. You are adding some definition to the range of experiences that can serve as a great future reference.

And I wonder how you will top yourself after all this?!