We had around twenty-two people the first time and were amazed at how many of them opened up the first day.

~~

We don't promote getting into a trance state. It is the state of bliss that is the end result of our practice.

~~

Kunlun is always first taught as a seated practice. Once your nervous system adjusts to the increase in current, there is a standing version that can be performed. There is also a five-elements moving Kunlun set.

This practice activates the divine bliss that everyone has within. It is similar to the energy of an orgasm but is not sexual in nature. When this energy becomes active in the body it starts an internal alchemical process of rapid change. As it moves through you it releases whatever blocks are in its way. This is why we say one hour can be equivalent to one hundred years in another system. It is that effective. Actually, if performed correctly, one can achieve the same result in only five minutes.

As the yin and yang channels merge in the lower dan tien, the bliss rises up the central channel of the body like champaign bubbles and the magnetic potential of the individual can then be realized. Working from this magnetic body, one can do some very interesting things.

He uses the term re-enlightenment because you are already there, you just need to re-move the things that are in the way of you realizing it.

If you would like to build your jing chi prior to the seminar then celibacy is fine. It won't hurt. We recommend performing the upward draw to prevent the loss of your essence though, should you decide to have sex.

~~

Kunlun should be performed exclusively in the initial phase to allow your nervous system to adjust to the increase in current and to allow the internal alchemical process to work. although the practices you describe should not conflict.

~~

The book is a good place to start, but it is the transmission that really gives you the ability.

~~

Max eats hamburgers, french fries, pizza, and drinks Coke and Mountain Dew. His internal alchemy allows him to convert everything to usable energy, so he eats whatever he wants.

An average person can become like Max, if they do the same practices. You can learn how to fill yourself to over-abundance which can then be used to heal others.

~~

The key to developing these kinds of abilities is by unlocking them. You already have the ability; we all do, but we have forgotten our original nature.

As we wrote about in Pillars of Bliss, the spontaneous Kunlun practice helps activate the dormant parts of the brain and also activates "junk" DNA. Once this internal alchemy has begun, amazing things start to happen. Most important is the activation of divine bliss, because it is this energy that works through your body to eliminate energy blocks and mind-body illusions.

What Lama Dorje does is to plant the seed (direct mind-to-mind transfer of the knowledge/ability) and then show you the method for cultivating it.

It is very simple. So simple most would reject it, but the highest practices are incredibly simple and incredibly powerful.

~~

This is actually a Nei Gung practice and you are not dealing with chi. It is a different type of energy. Closer to divine mind.

It can be dangerous only in that you mix other methods with it, such as Kudalini Yoga. If you do not know what you are doing the energy can rise up the wrong channel and make you go bonky.

The book is a great place to start but it is essential to have the direct transfer from Lama Dorje, as this is the pearl of knowledge that the Kunlun practice cultivates.

Historically, this tradition is not a written one. It is direct knowledge that is energetically transferred, mind-to-mind from teacher to student. This is how it has been passed down from the beginning.

When the divine bliss is activated, by contrast creations of the mind are eliminated. That is to say, emotional/energy blocks and mental illusions which we carry are eliminated because they cannot stand up to the brilliance of divine bliss. This process can cause the body to shake or tremble like a wet dog shaking off water. People laugh, cry, scream, begin spontaneous yogic postures, sing, etc. It is always different because we are all holding different things inside. It is very odd looking, but afterwards students find they have lightened their load and many of them (like those at the first LA seminar) look years younger the next day.

~~

Meditation alone will not easily get you there. It is the creation of the magnetic vortex via Kunlun that opens the dormant parts of the brain.

~~

The truth is that he is willing to teach things that you simply cannot get others to share. He wants to share this knowledge with people.

When he was in the monastery in Nepal, they said "don't teach the nuns these practices" because they wanted to keep their caste system in place. You see, if the women had the ability to do the things the men could do there would be chaos. They were also afraid of how much more powerful the nuns could become because women are more powerful than men at the higher levels.

So upon hearing this request, Lama Dorje made plans to visit the nuns the next morning, where he had tea with them, chit-chatted, and then proceeded to teach them EVERYTHING he had.

You see, he is a system buster. He has gone into every mystery school on earth, stripped away all of the BS and found the common root practice, which is the Spontaneous Kunlun Nei Gung. He goes against the order and it is because he goes against the order that his teachers have given him their highest secrets.

He rejects the tradition of keeping these high teachings secret, by making them available to everyone who is interested in learning.

He is not fooling his teachers. They know exactly what he is doing, and they want him to do it because these arts are dying out. Monks in Tibet face punishment if they are caught doing any sort of practice. There is an undercover soldier dressed as a monk and he observes everything. The rest of China is the same way. So in order to keep this knowledge alive they make it appear as though Max has done something wrong. They then reprimand him and cast him out. As he leaves there is a little nod and a wink, and he leaves to teach in the West.

He is recognized by the high Lamas as a Boddhisattva incarnate. A real one. Medicine men, shaman and others see him the same way. This is why masters from every tradition seek him out for healing and teaching.

He is blessed to be born in the west but raised in the Eastern tradition from age six because it allows him to pass freely through the world as a normal person. The fact is that he is anything but normal. I have seen things that I cannot discuss at this time, because the world is not ready for it. Soon maybe, but not quite yet.

By coming out to travel and do seminars, he is saving people the enormous amounts of money and time they might spend traveling the world for this information (which they may never find anyway).

Also, he is not looking to collect a big string of students. He gives you the ability (via transfer) and he gives you the method for cultivating the ability. Done. You are welcome to continue to study with him but no longer really need to see him after that.

We say, "you need a teacher to show you that you don't need a teacher."

Everything is within you, you just need to know how to unlock it.

Cheers!

~~

It is unprecedented, but necessary at this time. Too few have had too much for too long, for no good reason.

People assume all of this is supposed to be hard. It is not. Especially when your practicing the root.

~~

It is best to not focus on abilities. They will come and they have their purpose but they are merely side effects on the path. More important is to achieve union with the Tao.

~~

I have recently had a revelation about the impression Max makes with people and the emphasis that is put on teachers.

Max is one of the most humble people I have ever met. I say this because in light of what I have seen him do he always maintains the self-image of a lowly servant.

In person he refuses to present himself as a Lama, Taoist master, or spiritual guru. Not that he isn't all of these things, because he is, but because he is very uncomfortable with the idea of being put on a pedestal. He consistently states that he only knows "a little bit" about what he teaches.

He is the one who taught me that "you need a teacher to show you that you don't need a teacher."

He even rejects the title of "teacher" as he prefers to think of teaching as just "friends sharing information."

Because of this perspective he presents himself as a regular guy. No robes, no bowing, no caste hierarchy. The problem with this is that some people NEED TO SEE the robes and whatnot in order to value the information they are getting and respect the person who is presenting it. This is part of the human psyche.

An exalted, dramatic presentation is absolutely necessary for some people because collectively we judge books by their cover.

The fact is that HE IS an amazing human being. He understands the process (with all of its weirdness) of opening the body and spirit to the Tao.

Let me elaborate on that last statement because there is a whole lot to it. When human beings move from a closed down mundane state to higher enlightened levels there are almost infinite variations of bodily processes and conditions one will experience. Max understands all of these. Whether it is shaking, heat, contorted yogic movements, changes in vision, the movement of energy in the body, changes in temperature, blacking out, nausea, emotional release, bliss, electrical sensations, magnetic sensations, circulation, spirit travel, etc., etc., he gets it.

I have seen so many people go through this process (each in their own bizarre way) and I am always amazed by the fact that he always knows not only what they are experiencing but also how to guide them through.

So if you are called to explore the methods you have read about in this forum, know that you are in the hands of an expert.

He may not impress you with his appearance, but that is kinda the point.


On being human:
Max is human like the rest of us. His body is slightly different in its functionality and sensitivity. He prefers the mountains or desert to busy cities. This is due to the erratic electrical and spiritual energy that can be found there.

San Francisco was a nightmare in terms of this because of the over head wire grid that spans the city and powers buses and trolly cars. After spending the day there the situation nearly got critical as it amped his system and cause severe inter-phasing. Inter-phasing is a condition of transitioning to a higher vibration. It can be extremely uncomfortable and even painful. It is like cranking up your own amperage.

In order for Max to stave off his final evolution he cannot allow a certain type of energy to express itself. If he does not, he will shift into Dragon Body (similar to Rainbow Body). If the process is allowed to begin it will move quickly.

We almost canceled the whole seminar because of this. Needless to say, Friday's talk was very strange. Max was having to try his best to speak, when all he really wanted to do was leave. Not the jovial entertaining vibe we usually enjoy. It was quite serious as we were watching him closely to make sure he was alright.

Anyway, the point of all of this is to illustrate that no matter what level you're at there are challenges. It isn't easy to be here and for the sake of our evolution, it isn't supposed to be.

Teachers are just people. Give them whatever respect you feel they deserve but don't ever put them above yourself.

If they put themselves above you, be careful.

~~

I think it is best to say that it (bouncing) works like an on/off switch. It activates and then encourages the opening of the Kunlun energy. It creates a rhythm that matches the vibration of the kunlun energy which more easily allows it to be expressed.

Now, if you would like to work with it for a while you can gain your own understanding of what all of that means.

Good luck!

~~
We have had many gay people in our seminars. Some would seem to have an advantage because they allow more of their feminine side to flow and Kunlun is all about the feminine energy.

It really comes down to reconciling the male/female within and finding the balance. This is why Taoist men grew their hair long: to help balance their female nature. Women monks shave their heads to balance male.

~~

In Kunlun dual cultivation (with a partner), it doesn't matter what the combination is. It could be male/male, female/female, or male/female. It is just energy that mixes beyond male and female. You don't even have to touch physically.

You find the energy you need to balance.

Spooky eh?

~~

Any claims against people who are homosexual being capable of self-enlightenment are just bullshit.

All the "phobes" will eventually need to reconsider their position as they move closer to the truth.

Max says that us men can only get so far before we need the women to take us to the higher levels. It doesn't mean that you need to physically have sex with them to benefit. Take our seminars for instance, you have 3 men and 3 women moving through the group helping to open people up. someone may be more receptive to the male energy while others are more receptive to the female. It just comes down to what you need for balance.

More agro guys like me need lots of female energy to hit the deep stuff in my heart. Historically I have been less receptive to Max's energy. His (like mine) is pretty yang.

~~

Just hold the position to activate the energy. Then let it go. You don't have to hold the position the whole time.

~~

Nice to see you all experiencing the effects. Pretty weird eh?

I love it.

The bouncing legs is the energy activating. If one leg is bouncing more than the other, that clues you in as to what type of energy needs to manifest greater in your life. Left leg is yin, right leg is yang.

If I get lots of right leg I am being too soft in my life; if I get more left leg I am being too fiery and aggressive.

I must warn you: DO NOT attempt level two until you have done level one for 3 to 6 months. Your nervous system must have that time to adjust to the increase in current. If you push it it won't work and you can get hurt.

Please be patient. There is plenty in store for you just by practicing level one. In fact, I have focused on level one exclusively for several years.

Also, this practice is not about serving any lineage. The whole point is "empowerment."

~~

Bingo.

It is best to get out of the mind and allow this energy to do its work. This is also referred to the Formless Form. You start with a posture, but then you let everything go as the Kunlun activates.

The analytical mind is best applied AFTER the practice.

~~

So I got my book. Question for Mantra68, are the eyes open or closed in the level one position and the sitting meditation afterwards?

Thanks!

Either way is fine.

If you keep them open, they should be two-thirds open and looking down at a 45 degree angle. Relaxed.

I like to keep them closed or wide open when I use the Mindfold mask I got from Alex Grey: http://alexgrey.com/shop.html

Very cool for really going deep.

~~

QUOTE(KoHsuan @ Oct 9 2007, 05:45 PM) *

Could somebody clarify for me "after 10 minutes start to spiraling at waist"

What direction? Is it physical movement or mental? How fast?

other question: is it correct to aim to 80 minutes of Kunlun daily : 60 - kunlun + 20 closing?

The spiraling is just a suggestion. If you are feeling movement you should just go with it.

Spiraling clockwise will create the downward flow. Spiraling counter-clockwise will bring the energy up. Clockwise is what is recommended for Kunlun. Side to side is good too.

For our friends down under, do the opposite. Just kidding. tongue.gif

Don't be too concerned about the time. Do what you feel is best.

QUOTE(Wun Yuen Gong @ Oct 9 2007, 06:09 PM) *

Also why does the heel come off the ground compared to most chi kung or med when they have there feet flat?

This activates the energy. Your legs will begin to bounce and this energy will move up through your dan tiens if you let it.

You must not think too much in Kunlun. Feeling is the key.

~~

The thing about Kunlun is that IT WORKS.

If you are interested in a spiritual path that cuts out all of the fluff and B.S. then this is for you. The method itself is like the path of enlightenment: free of that which is not needed.

You are a great example of a typical Kunlun practitioner. You are doing your practice and immediately getting results. You are stirring your own pot.

All of the things you have within are revealed. You must be brave on this path because you will have to face yourself. The good, the bad and the ugly.

This is why so many fail on the path. Some people can't handle dealing with what they have created.

I personally look at my own stuff in a very detached manner. I have directly experienced the Tao and in that moment could clearly see my obstacles. In a way I got mad at myself for allowing such a separation from source, so I have become somewhat fearless about kicking out the illusions of the past.

When practicing, do not bring the energy into the head. Allow the downward flow to cool the fire and merge at the heart.

With Kunlun, you have activated a "reset" function of the body. It is a process that knows what to do. It will continue to work to straighten you out and eliminate the "extra" things you have created.

What remains is the bliss.

The visual changes you are experiencing is your own wisdom eye opening. This is common. Max and Kan and others see the world in a completely different way. They see the energy that is around everything. It takes some adjustment, but you will be fine.

Store everything in the lower dan tien. You are correct.

Also, congratulations. You are doing great.

~~

Here's one that helped me in the beginning. If you don't feel any spontaneous movements start swaying side to side. Imagine your spine is a snake and that your tailbone is the head. So, the snake is moving downward as if it is driving itself into the earth.

The tail will obviously move much more freely than the head which translates to the upper spine moving freely. This helps align the neck and shoulders and release a ton of tension. Let everything go.

Keep this visual going when you do Kunlun and before you know it the energy will really flow.

The waveform you create will provide a path for the magnetic energy to rise.

~~

They should call it Stevie Wonder Nei Gung.

Stevie does Kunlun naturally. He pumps his Kunlun into his music. The swaying, and smiling with his head back. Perfect form.

~~

Good experiences. The bouncing legs is your body trying to balance. If your right leg bounces you are balancing yang, left leg is yin energy. When they bounce together you are generating.

You are doing good.

Seeing the eye means your third eye is opening. The pressure in your forehead is another symptom of this process.

~~

To bring your focus to the lower dan tien at the conclusion of practice brings the energy down.

We will clarify this whole topic in the new version of the book. We will also include many new teachings such as the standing five elements and the method for spirit travel.

~~

If you have read the forward to our book you will see that I started doing Kunlun standing. It is good to go into from doing holding the ball posture or 5 elements.

Just make sure you have plenty of room around yourself.

Standing "Kunlun 5 elements" is pretty cool too. Lots of movement. I'll ask Max if he wants to teach that too.

~~

Can somebody from seminars help...
Could Kunlun Closing Practise be done in cross-legged position?

I do it "cross legged" on the bed at night. I tuck one heel under the perineum and let the other foot rest against my other leg.

This performs a chi-lock to keep the energy in the body.

QUOTE(joeblast @ Oct 26 2007, 08:11 AM) *

I've been closing sitting on a chair, legs down. Rationale being that if I'm doing the practice with my legs down, the channels are more open, didnt think it would be proper to hinder the leg channels concurrently with closing, should there be excess qi in the leg channels.
Let me know if that logic sounds proper...

Heels down helps turn the energy off. Mentally saying "slow down" helps you as well.

Just take it easy and don't worry about it too much.

QUOTE(minkus @ Oct 26 2007, 03:33 AM) *

Hellow Mantra,

I have a practice question.

When doing kunlun the energy clears blockages and more. Now i accidentally have a small infected muscle on my back from sports. I noticed that after doing kunlun that little part starts to get about 5 times as warm as the rest of my body .. is the kunlun energy healing my physical wound there or is it advised to pause until the little muscle is back to normal as the enormous amount of energy could have an adverse effect on the healing ?

I would say it heals but boy i had to stop as it got a bit to hot and even painfull so now i dont know wich is best.

Kind regards, M

The energy will go where it is needed. Just let it do its thing. Allow as much as you can stand and then cool down.

This goes for all discomfort. You body knows what to do. It will contort and stretch and twist at times, depending on what you need.

~~

Don't worry about what your legs are doing. There is no "correct" response other than what happens naturally (ie, with an empty mind).

There is no improvement on the practice as it has been already reduced to its essence. Take the posture indicated to activate the energy and once activated, let gooooooo. Watch objectively as your does what it does to "self-correct" or reset itself.

Don't look for bliss or specific movements. Everyone is different.

~~

As you continue with your practice you may find yourself having clear recall of events in this life and others. You are unlocking what is inside of you good and bad.

It only gets better.

~~

I did correct the closing down posture in the book. It is photographed as left-over-right and we had initially written it as right-over-left.

The fact is that this is one of those times where right-over-left/left-over-right doesn't really matter so much as centering the palms and holding your hands over the lower dan tien.

Max will teach it one way one time and then the other the next time. Both work.

~~

You should wait at least 6 months before trying level 2. Your nervous system needs time to adjust to the increase in current. If you try level 2 too early it will be very uncomfortable and you could hurt yourself.

~~

I am referring to the closing down posture in terms of hand position. The starting posture should be right above left.

Once you feel the energy open you can forget the hand posture and let it go.

Spiraling clockwise draws the energy down while spiraling counterclockwise draws the energy up. Do clockwise for the cooling effect. It will merge with any rising fire to achieve balance in the heart.

Sheng Zhen, you are correct. Energy trapped in the joints can release suddenly.

Good luck boys.

~~

It really seems like the peeps of the world are ready for this practice. We are still amazed at how fast people are experiencing these massive openings and playing with their new energetic abilities.

In terms of Kunlun with a partner, there is the dual-cultivation practice. Any of you who have been doing Kunlun with any success could do the dual-cultivation with a partner. PM me for details.

When you open it up, it's like normal sex times a thousand.

You get to where you just need to connect (with no movement) and the valley orgasm begins, then you transition to the point where you don't even have to touch and you can activate it.

~~

Smile and radiate from the heart.

Bring that to the world.

~~

He was doing something he was told not to do and he paid a big price. He must work to regenerate and recover as best as possible to bring himself back to normal. The higher level stuff is going to be much more difficult for him to achieve.

You have to be very careful of who you open your energy to.

~~

I am referring to the state beyond the initial realignment phase. Divine void.

We actually prefer not to "talk" at all, but suggest you go for the direct experience.

I really encourage you to give this practice a chance. Regardless of what you have read and despite whatever was said between us. I promise you will understand what I mean.

You already have the knowledge transfer; the seed is there. If you do the practice you will cultivate the seed and gain much. What do you have to lose?

QUOTE(mikaelz @ Nov 6 2007, 03:42 PM) *

whats so significant about kunlun level 1? i read the book and found it so simple. is it all in the posture? the hands held in that way? the feet arched? can one achieve the same results with the hands down and sitting cross legged?

Don't underestimate the simplicity. The highest practices are even simpler in method but incredibly powerful in effect.

Do the practice and you will be surprised.

Walking is a simple thing, but once you learn how to do it you can go anywhere.

~~

These are mostly self-generated, as are tigles and various other phenomena.

People must know that it is they who are in control.

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN EXPERIENCES. Own up and quit being so afraid of yourself.

Create beauty and flow instead.

You can.

The beginning will be the greatest challenge for those who practice Kunlun. It is during that time that most of the "demons" will come out of you. After this period as your body adjusts, your truth will unfold beautifully before you.

~~

Hey all,
I am a student of Lama Dorje's and one of his close friends. I can answer some of your questions regarding him and his teachings. I do not know everything about him, as he is constantly amazing me with some new area of expertise, but I do know some things.

My main area of study is the spontaneous Kunlun Nei Gung practice, or "bliss practice."

I look forward to meeting you all.

Chris

~~

The only danger is if you have things around you that you can knock into, and if you are practicing something like Kundalini Yoga which is not harmonious with Kunlun. Each has its own process and must be allowed to flow individual of each other. So we recommend to those starting Kunlun, practice Kunlun exclusively for a period of time so that it can work more effectively because you are beginning an internal alchemy process that has its own intelligence. It knows what to do and once activated, it will be working even when you are not practicing.

Everything I have learned from Max and Chris can be summed up in one word.

"Yes".

Take it easy.

Jeez did I write all of that? What a blabber-mouth.

I personally feel like I only know a little bit.

Thanks for putting all of that together Yoda. Now I have a place to send people who asks common questions.

I am just so happy that you guys are able to experience these things directly. Hopefully, people will continue to pursue these teachings while Max is still around (you never know how long that will be). Then they can get the transfer themselves.

If Sifu Max suddenly goes Dragon Body I can just imagine the conversations on Taobums from now until the end of time.

"Yeah...we had a teacher once..he came..he saw..he left...we called him Max".

I hope Mantra is getting all the footage he can of Max so atleast at future workshops we can all sit around and do Kunlun and watch Max videos!

Of course, I would prefer he does stick around. I like the man.

Rainbow Body is supposedly a 1-way ticket where all your physical body gets transformed into energy and you go bye-bye, leaving no remains.

Gold Dragon Body is a 2-way ticket where you maintain your physical body in a transmuted, highly-refined form.

Or something like that...I'd ask Chris for clarification if he cares to give it.

Anyhow, a Kunlun FAQ will save a lot of work and is surely good!

I think WYG question is a good one.

I don't think attaining Golden Dragon Body is anything any of us really needs to worry about accomplishing atleast anytime soon. However, it would be nice to get a sort of clear explanation on what GDB means from Mantra at some point(doesn't have to be anytime soon either imo.)

Cam

Interesting talk about dragons:

Dragon Body is similar to Rainbow body except that with RB the space between the atoms of your body begins to contract and you start to physically shrink until you reach a point where you shift into light. What is left is hair and nails and sometimes relics.

Dragon Body is where you have a similar shift energetically, but you are able to come back to your physical form. There are certain practices you have to then do so that you can maintain your form, if you choose to stay here.

I have been on that threshold before and got a tiny glimpse of what Dragon Body really means. It is a kind releasing of all of the tension that binds your many bodies together. A simple thought can achieve this.

But it is not that simple at the same time, because you have to be at a certain understanding (enlightenment) or perspective with your existence. How much are you still attached to your life here? Family, relationships, physical pleasures, your Earthly persona, material things?

Also, there are higher beings on the other side who will let you know if it is your time or not and then there are those who protect the gates to the higher realms. Sometimes you need one more good ass kicking, or you are just ready. Either way, you will be tested.

As some of you know we have a few people in our group who can make this transition at anytime if they choose.

I personally take things slower and plan to be around for a long time since I have a lot of work to do. Plus things are getting more interesting everyday around here so I am curious to see how it all is going to play out for humanity.

But, if you can still come back in physical form, then why delay?

Or is it just more of a hassle to have to keep doing practices to maintain your physical form afterwards? Also, once over there, perhaps there's no guarantee that you'll still want to come back?

It is not time yet. There are certain promises I made internally. I need to maintain a more mundane level while I do my work plus there is my 8 year-old daughter to consider. No reason to rush, that world will be there when I am done here and I am content with my schedule.

If I come to that point again and I would choose to stay here for those reasons. The tricky thing is when you glimpse that world almost every part of you wants to leave this one. Some in our group don't know if they can resist and they fight it often.

It takes a true Bodhisattva spirit (like Max) to make the decision to stay, when you know you can go.

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when youre sittin at the table.
Therell be time enough for countin when the dealins done.

It is a state of attainment, not a practice.

Mantra,

Could you elaborate on the Dragon body comment please? Why is called Dragon body if its similar to Rainbow body for eg? Are you to see dragons?

Vortex,

Great discription, so if there is nothing happening in Kunlun practise you start the spirialing action to help move the energy correct?

WYG

Serene,

Second Vortex's suggestion.

If I were you, I'd sit for 4-5 minutes and then just start spiraling clockwise (as if you were sitting on a clock facing up) and go with that. If that's too much, try just taking the position and start spiraling immediately.

It's been mentioned that you can do this sitting Indian style, standing, or maybe even kneeling could work too.

Another suggestion would be to sit comfortably with your back supported for 10+ minutes to get into the vibe and then sit up and start spiraling for 5+ minutes per session.

Have patience and creativity with it... you should be able to figure it out if it's a good practice for you within a few weeks of daily practice.

Yours,
Yoda

My 2 cents.

I thought the same thing about the Kunlun being a different version of Kundalini especially the spirialing of the body when you are not feeling the Kunlun.

Here is what i have noticed from the book that holds some keys for Kunlun!!!

Raising the feet = on/off switch

Spirialing the abdomin = on switch to help it start?!

Without these Cameron or anyone else for that matter would you attain the Bliss of Kunlun?

thanks in advance...

WY

mikaelz,
Kundalini is the upward fire. Kunlun is the downward water flow.

As the downward flow comes over you it can draw the fire up from below and then they merge at the heart. This cools the fire and creates the steam of bliss (magnetic expansion).

mikaelz,

I've been doing both Kunlun and Hindu mantras for the last two weeks and it seems to be working out. Just don't do them back-to-back... put them into different times of the day and it should work out. You might take some time off of Kunlun around your shaktipat possibly. (?)

Actually, I think that Kunlun is improving the power of my mantra practice.

Perhaps as time goes on, I'll need to choose between paths, but at the beginning stages, it seems that everything is cool.

Yoda

My experience is that the hand position prompts the vitality (jing, essence) of the hara to ping-pong up and down the front, amongst the lower and middle (heart) centers. A kind of kan & li, which we all know sweetens vitality into bliss. Once it's sweetened enough, it becomes less stingy and spontaneously unsticks from the hara and flows (mostly down and) deeper into the body. Yummy.

I've been eagerly awaiting the Michael and the Trunk reports, thanks!!

*ouch!, responding to my own post*
(a little narcissism for a Saturday morning)
One of the things that came up at 'a previous' forum, years ago, is that ren (the front channel of the m.orbit) is shown as running up in all of the Chinese medical texts. Obviously, us qi gongers are typically taught to run it down. Some sources in the Chinese medical community say that it runs both ways. My opinion is that not only is a version of kan & li embedded in the kunlun method, but also a version of the orbit that is truer to the body's actual functioning.

Trunk,

The friday night lecture that you skipped one of the things Max went over is the orbit running up the front and down the back.

Max teaches so succinctly and so fast. Like he just covered the whole MCO stuff..running both ways and also another way where the energies flow up and down and meet at the heart.

I was just sitting in the front row with my jaw dropping. That first night was really some amazing conversations also with some martial artists in the audience talking about Alchemy.

Cam

Max told me that I don't need the MO. That might just be personal and not necissarily for all practitioners.

But if your going to do Kunlun and 100 days you might as well do what Max says. If you really want another practice besides Kunlun try standing meditation.

My view is running the orbit with your mind-though possibly valid for some people-is mostly a waste of time. Doing Kunlun feels like the natural way to me. Channels open naturally and without effort or "will".

Cam

Reverse MO?

That couldn't work, could it?

One of the great secrets...

Trunk,

One more thing.

At the Phoenix workshop I had "an accident".

I was going to hang out with Mantra68 and went to his hotel room and Kan was there.

Kan saw me and told me to come into the bedroom.

I wasn't sure what was going on. He doesn't speak English and I don't speak Japanese. And I wasn't going to say no to Kan. I followed him into the bedroom and he asked me to lie down on the bed face up. I did so and he proceeded to do energy work on me.

Kan waved his hands over me for maybe two minutes.

Mantra walks in and sees what's going on and we figure out Kan mistakenly thought I was there for a treatment. I really was in quite a different frame of mind at the time(It was right before we were driving out to the desert) and just didn't know what was going on.

As we were driving out to the desert I suddenly had extreme pressure along my front channel. If felt like my front channel was literally trying to "pop open" from Kan waving his hands over me for a couple minutes.

The next day I tried to schedule a full treatment with Kan but he was all booked.

My advice..even if you never do another workshop with Max do whatever you can to get a treatment with Kan. That goes for anyone who is at a workshop Kan is at.

Cam

For those of you who wanted to see and hear Max speak, I have posted some excerpts from a recent lecture.

You can check it out here.

Enjoy!

I don't know anything about level 2 attainment. There's a level 2 Kunlun practice, but I don't know anything about that, either.



I wouldn't worry about the female thing... plenty of women around and about, fortunately. And they don't need to be girlfriends or wives either per Chris. I'd focus on the transmission thing... not too many Kunlun teachers out there... and the other three are onto other things.

I'd imagine you can go very far compared to other paths just from the book, but you'll need the transmission at some point to make further progress... we'll work on the east coast workshop thing in the meantime!

Coincidently, I have a Swami who says that men need women but not vis versa. Fortunately, it appears as if men don't need to be in a sexual relationship with women to make that connection and has a book out there called "The Womb Process" available on kaleshwar.org if anyone is interested.

I am so excited!!! I tried the suggestions everyone gave me yesterday. I tried doing 4-5 minutes then spiral at the waist. That worked. Spiraling relieves the pain in my back. I also modified the instructions in that my chair has a back and arm rests but they presented no problems at all and it was nice resting gently on the back rest while experiencing Kunlun.

And what made me even happier is that I experienced some of the signs listed in the book that Kunlun is activating. Except I didn't get the bliss feeling. Odd. I'm not sure why that didn't activate but many others did.


Arched back
Bouncing legs
Crawling, itchy skin
Heat
Open mouth
Swirling light with my eyes closed
Tigles

But most important of all...when I finally finished my back was FREE FROM THE PAIN from that awful wreck for the first time in YEARS! I am soooo excited. You have no idea how much it means to me to find something that has given me relief from this constant pain. If it continues I am hoping I can wean myself off pain medication.

If I never had another benefit ever again from Kunlun that one thing alone - relief from my awful back pain makes it worth doing daily.

To Mantra...please tell Max I am forever grateful to him for being willing to teach people this wonderful form of healing Tao.

Fellow Bums of the Tao,

I just watched this video, and I was very impressed by what I heard and saw. Based on this video, Max's sincerity and humility are clearly evident; I'd like to see more. Kunlun Nei Gong sounds like what I have been searching for - I'll give it a shot.

I don't feel that I need to see Max demonstrate anything; I'm ambivalent about the need for a "transmission" - not convinced it's necessary - but I'm still open to it. If what he is teaching works, that's all I care about - the proof is in the pudding and I'm the pudding . If Max should hold a seminar on the east coast (I'm in Rhode Island) I will definitely make every effort to attend.

Max's book Pillar of Bliss (which I ordered before I watched the video - thanks, Trunk for clueing me in on this via your website) will be arriving tomorrow. I'll begin my Kunlun practice, and I'll try to let eveyone know what my experiences are.

My western oriented, engineering trained mind wants to know how it works, what the mechanisms are and how can I improve on it. Well, according to Max (and I believe him), all I need to do is to practice and then it becomes mine - no secrets, no fictions, no bullshit. I'm willing to give it a try.

My left brain has a million questions (just like everyone else). But for now, I'm putting that part of me on hold. I'm willing to let go of theory and embrace experience.

I'll let you know what happens.

Sincerely, your fellow Bum of the Tao,

AugustLeo

Yes, Kunlun has some nice effects - even without the transmission. Have fun!

Well, happily, I have an answer that I think is both politically correct and true.
First, I think that someone could take the method "all the way" under whatever lineage alignment works for you. For instance, I think someone could be a Christian or of an American Indian Tradition, or - for those rare who align with All That Is successfully on their own..

Anyway, next, at least one (or two?) people as I recall, earlier in discussion, received lineage/teacher interaction with Max from reading the book. If you feel drawn into this, relax into that feeling and allow it to be part of your practice. An essential skill of engaging in lineage is learning to "blend your mind-stream" with that of the lineage. From that point of view, Everything is available - from where ever you are.

(Hey, I mean, not that it's not nice to see a Teacher in person. )

Chris:




(Chris went on to say that Cam has plenty of energy and to please not bring in more! )

I am sticking to my 100 days attempt despite Brother Chris's Advice.

Cam

just messin' with ya!

Chris speaks:

Chris on the pre-Kunlun visualization drill in "Pillars of Bliss":



(Max had suggested listening to Kitaro at one point.)

~~~~~~

Another subject: one taobum was concerned that her sex drive would always die after a Kunlun session and didn't like the effect.

Chris' response:



Note from the staff at Taobums: "Taobums.com has officially reviewed and approved the above mentioned tenfold increase of sexual pleasure for all taobums over the age of 18. Thank you for your participation."

~~~~


Chris speaks:



~~~~~


when asked about sensations in a point between and about 2 inches behind the eyes:



~~~~

12/22/07:

When asked about arm fatigue due to holding the position for too long, Chris said:



When asked recently about the simplicity of Kunlun, Chris said:

A very good point in Working Towards Enlightenment (Nan Huai-Chin) regarding awakening was the attention drawn to all of the prepatory work done before it becomes as easy as turning one's hands over. Whe one is ready, it is that easy! (I know I sure aint! that is an excellent book, btw...thanks to Drew for the suggestion!)

This is Chris' responses to statements also quoted. Hopefully, it'll be easy enough to figure out which voice is Chris:



A cool background:



Image from this page: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...4537&st=160







In my opinion this is the single best answer to "What is Kunlun?" short of going to a class that I've found. Reading the book and following it verbatim and watching this vid is the way to go. In Chris' words:

Chris:

There are three levels to Red Phoenix.

Then we have other practices that can be given if one desires. They have fun names like: Red Dragon, Black Dragon, Gold Dragon, Dragon's Breath, etc. All very powerful, high-level methods that develop different abilities, like the stuff you saw on the DVD I gave you.

Kunlun level one with Red Phoenix will give most people what they are looking for.

Two of Max's top students have reached the level of Gold Dragon Body already. One in one year and the other in three years time.

That final step is quite a difficult step to take though.

When you are standing on that threshold you are faced with a choice: step through and become what you will or refuse the opportunity and stay at your current level. It can be scary, because you don't know if you will be able to come back. That is usually up to the other side.





It is not that they are increasingly powerful, but that they do different things.

As you develop, and once Max knows you pretty well, he may share some of these other practices. You must be dedicated to your art and practice with discipline to show that you are serious first though.

Max will only ever claim to know "just a little," but the truth is that he is like a library of spiritual methods. It is incredible. He has shown me hundreds of methods and then variations of those methods, but I stick with just a few. Kunlun and Red Phoenix are two of the best because together they represent a reunion of two root practices.

That means he has brought two of the original practices back together to present a complete system. Together they can take you all the way to Dragon Body (Diamond Body/Rainbow Body) if you allow them to do their work.

~~~



This is very true. At the highest levels, the mystics do not argue about philosophy and methods. They understand the essence of each other's system.

It is at the fundamental levels where you get so much bickering over details.

This is the difference between understanding the "root" and being confused by all of the "branches and flowers."

It's like we are all traveling to the center of a sphere. From the perimeter we are all clearly separate, but the closer we get to the center the more alike we see that we are until we just merge with the oneness of the divine.


~~~

When asked regarding a throbbing/pulsing feeling in the middle of the head:


The throbbing is a good sign. Sometimes it may feel like an expanding bubble or the same kind of feeling you get when your ears need to pop, but in the center of your head.

Standing practice is good for the morning, but I too prefer Kunlun at night. It helps me shake off the negativity of the day and reset. It also sets me up for some amazing dreams when I do the sleeping spirit travel practice.

Glad to hear you are still working the practices you learned. When you least expect it, openings occur.

~~~

It is best to not focus on "recognizable effects" and consider just letting go more. Some days will be dramatic and others will be quite subtle. As you harmonize the mind, body, and spirit, big movements and shaking will subside and the internal world will open up to you.

~~~

“It is important that you allow all of the energy to be stored in the abdomen not in the head (that is where all of the heat comes from). When you do this the images may dim, but don't worry you are not losing them. When the enery is stored in the lower dan tien you will become more grounded.

Do not do Kundalini exercises at this point because you already have enough rising fire. Simplify. Doing Kunlun will create the downward flow of water and balance the fire. This will also create a more subtle refined energy flow.”

Some Chris transmission related quotes rounded up by AugustLeo:

~~~~

From Max:

Hello Taobums,
What is Kunlun? It is the one sympathetic vibration that connects every living thing in the seen and unseen world. It is the one law as the essence of unconditional love and compassion. It bridges space, time, energy and matter. The shaman see it as a glowing spiderweb of living brightness, or the glue that gives connectivity to all things within the great mystery.

Kunlun is a practice that allows us to express our individuality with total freedom of body, mind and spirit.

Kunlun isn't power, it isn't something to be harnessed within the body, rather it is a free flowing essence, giving the practitioner understanding of this one law, to enjoy life for what it is, to become compassionate towards self and others, to become the drop of individuality that merges with the ocean of wisdom.

Kunlun is the natural essence of our being, free of obstruction, it emanates through us from the source and empowers us through personal interaction with each other. It is direct experience with the Tao. It is personal and subjective. Once you are tapped into it, amazing thing begin to happen.

My understanding may be different or not in perfect relation with others, but it doesn't matter, what's important is the effect of its virtues on you.

I am just a simple person, still seeking to understand the Tao. I don't consider myself a master, nor do I call myself "teacher," I just like to be friends with others on the path, through compassion for those seeking the greatness within themselves.

What is Kunlun? only you can answer.

Max

P.S. Thank you Tao Bums for all you have done to help spread Kunlun to the world through your personal testimonies and experimentation.

~~~~

From Chris, restated by Cam:

The Kunlun opens up the 14 meridians, the jing lo, the three dan tiens, ad the secret square inch. It also awakens the nine palace pathways (the hotu).

The Microcosmic Orbit is also opened and it allows the chi to flow in both directions.

When the MCO flows in reverse it is called the Red Dragon circulation (Mao Shan). We have a whole method for this type of circulation that is not taught and are our more secret practices.

The whole purpose of Kunlun is to open ALL of the energy channels and all of the dan tiens regardless of what style you previously practiced.

In different Chinese traditions some say the MCO goes through the spine, some say it goes behind the spine and some say it goes in front of the spine. Regardless of the tradition, when combined with Kunlun it will open whichever flow you practice.

Everyone is right and everyone wins.

If you have the founder of Yang Tai Chi system (original way), he has designed the set in a specific way. Then in present day take three Yang Tai Chi teachers. Even though the knowledge comes from the first master, because of slight variations in the method, each will say that theirs it the original and correct way of doing Yang Tai Chi. So while they all come from the same source, they will disagree.

The end result, even with all the minor variations, will be the same

paraphrased Chris: The most important thing is intention.

~~~

Topflight's take on Max's emphasis on smiling during the 6/08 LA workshop:

Chris made a cool "grass gliding" long distance running post here:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5763&st=40

Here is an old video of Max demonstrating burning palm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koXkHUkwtuQ

Another of his old student Chris Matsuo demonstrating the vibrating palm he learned from Max as well as Max's first teacher's Wudang system:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW85RwlQ1ro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KER41vQYXlw

Chris has a school and teaches a lot of Max's old stuff for those who are interested in martial arts. http://www.dragongatesanctuary.com/Home.html

Another old student demonstrating the family forms, the shamanistic stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv7R_G30eCI

No they don't. John Chang is a "bottom up" energy system. Max's is a "top down" energy system. there are other differences, but that is the main general difference.

I agree that they ultimately achieve the same general objective, but it is a different method...

I've been avoiding all "bottom up," upward-flow methods long before kunlun, and I will continue to avoid them. The reason has to do with timing, with the nature of our time.

It is an upward-mobile, hierarchical, pyramid-scheme kind of time. The mass at the bottom supporting the rulers at the top. The way to get anywhere is to "ascend," climb the corporate ladder or the spiritual one, in the general direction of some Father in Heaven or other. This is the time that has made Earth a servant to a "higher" master. The time when the body is imprisoned with the excuse that the spirit roams free. (Duh. Disembodied spirits roaming free have long been known as gui, hungry ghosts.) The time we talk to each other in a disembodied internet fashion exchanging things of the head, mind, spirit, higher cortical activity -- instead of shoulder to shoulder, face to face, whole earthly being to whole living, breathing presence. The time when as above so below means glorify everything above and marginalize everything below.

The time when upward-flow cultivation practices add to the overall imbalance, on the personal level and the universal level alike, by imitating the very upward drift that has already gone too far and has been going too far for too long and is not slowing down or stopping as we speak. The time of kali yuga, blowing things up from under everybody's collective feet, sending them flying upward... dispersing, demolishing, upward-driving the foundation of life.

The downward flow practices are the natural antidote. Which is one reason I've taken to kunlun like fish to water. It is in harmony with the needs of our time. There's many practices that are "whatever" that don't phase in the nature of the time they're being practiced in. But taoism is nothing if not a study of the nature of time. The color, flavor, shape, meaning, intent of the season... Overlook it and you will never choose a practice wisely... They're good practices all right, many of them, and great practices some of them, but their time may have passed or may not have come, however you look at it, which means they are lousy practices if practiced right now, during a wrong cosmic season, even though they may have been great two thousand years ago and will be great again two thousand years from now.

Not so with kunlun. This one is time-sensitive... and the imperative of the time is... invert that damn pyramid... and crush that obnoxious usurper at the top with all the weight of its downward, magnetic, magnificent flow.

Chris:

It is VERY important that you maintain a little smile while you practice though. Not just for the energy pattern but because it opens the crown, further enabling the water path to flow.

Max loves Tao Bums:




Thanks for the shirts Yoda.