I am a major practitioner of many shaolin methods, including iron palm, in which you slap a bag filled with beans, gravel or steel shot and then massage with a liniment called dit da jow. I know that practices which conciously lead qi are not good to do with kunlun, but what about iron palm? As far as I know there isn't any qi leading involved, but the slapping does stimulate the meridians in the hand and affect qi level.

Hi,

I have also done Iron Palm training. It was for Taiji not Shaolin. I did quite a bit of research learning about methods and techniques.

Qi Can be led to the palms as in the same method for striking. In Taiji it is lead to the palms to emit Jin so it can also be lead practising iron palm. This would be toughening your arms and getting used to leading Qi.

I remember reading that Iron palm can lead to qi stagnation even with using Jow. This can lead to diseased liver, problems with eyesight etc. I am no expert on this I just remember reading about it. Its probably best to speak to an acupuncturist.

Max still does his iron palm training with steel shot. It is fine.

I have been training Iron Palm for 15yrs as well i teach it and you can damage your hands with the incorrect method and incorrect Dit Dar Jow. Good Iron Palm helps to sensitise the hands at the same time conditions the hands. There are many iron palm methods for instance in my system we have iron palm, vibrating palm, cotton palm, burning palms. These methods are also complete meditation methods with conditioning, healing abilities.

Just take things slow and look after the hands!

be well.
WYG

If anyone would like to add more general info, or point me to a good source of info, for iron palm, that would be great. thanks.

books, meditations, teachers in L.A., etc.

http://www.wle.com/products/VSL37D.html
http://www.wle.com/products/b1068.html

Sifu Wing Lam has a great, safe practice and many excellent products.

Cheers!

I've been interested in vibrating palm. I envision it as smaller circle motion than fajin on this scale: Yang style is mainly large circle (as practiced) Parts of Chen and fajin are small circle, and vibrating palm is even smaller circle. Is that correct? I haven't heard of cotton palm or burning palm other than having the palms get hot with chi.

Max actually just taught a class on Tibetan burning palm and vibrating palm yesterday. They are both excellent for healing.

Hey Mantra

Without asking you to tell us the practice in detail, perhaps you could share a description of what the practice/technique is?
What are the purposes, appications. Just a few more details. Two sentences is not enough of your deathless prose

Craig

Actually dit da jow is just bruise medicine. Iron Palm training is done with a specific jow. Check out member (and a friend of mine) Dale Dugas' viseos and web sites:
http://www.thetaobums.com/Baguazhang-and-I...deos-t4345.html

The method of burning palm is a slapping technique and the vibrating palm is done above the skin's surface (no touching). Vibrating palm is used in cases where someone cannot handle the pain of burning palm or on women if a man is applying the technique.

Burning palm releases toxins that accumulate in the organs by loosening the internal tension that hold the toxins inside. Heat is an effect of toxin release. Sometimes you will absorb the impact and leave no mark on your skin(if you need the extra energy), other times you will end up with a raised welt as the toxins release.

Vibrating palm does something similar by using yang chi above the surface of the body but can also use a shaking method on the surface. This method is good for lymphatic drainage. Also used for warming the body when very cold.

In the old days palming was used for self-defense by shocking the person's nervous system by over stimulation of the nerves.

Max will only teach the medicine aspect.

any further info on the san diego medicine palm training chris?

Thanks Mantra I didn't realize you were talking about a massge technique, I learned tui na and never heard the shaking method be called vibrating palm

Once upon a time in China there was a fair and at one point some strong young men put on a show of punching and smashing watermellons. Then a tai chi master walked up to one of the mellons and and gave it a little slap and it didn't break. All the tough young men started snickering and making rude little comments. Then the tai chi master got out his pocket knife and cut a hole in the end of the watermellon and the insides poured out on the ground like liquid. Suddenly all the snickering stopped.

THAT is vibrating palm.



ROFL



It looks like you just disagreed with yourself because either the heat causes the toxin release or it is caused by the toxin release, neither is correct though. When a person with more energy gives energy to one with less energy it will feel like heat to the taker, like the other person's hands are hot. If the giver has good energy thn it can cause the other person's sick energy to overflow. Energy, not toxins, get it?

SJ, thanks for cutting off discussion on this one with a semantics argument. You'll never get 'all the way' with the attitude you've been displaying. Why not constructively add to discussion instead of inserting subtle jabs and nitpicking? The behavior is pretty obvious, devoid of compassion; your intent does not seem proper.
I've said my piece on this and I wont mention it again. Just expressing some mild frustration. *shrugs* I dont want to see this forum devolve any more than it has lately.



Anyone know what the difference between burning palm and scorpion palm is??

Mantra,

will there be time for Max to demonstrate burning or vibrating palm in oslo?

"Once upon a time in China there was a fair and at one point some strong young men put on a show of punching and smashing watermellons. Then a tai chi master walked up to one of the mellons and and gave it a little slap and it didn't break. All the tough young men started snickering and making rude little comments. Then the tai chi master got out his pocket knife and cut a hole in the end of the watermellon and the insides poured out on the ground like liquid. Suddenly all the snickering stopped.

THAT is vibrating palm."

Or THAT is apocryphal.

No, that isn't vibrating palm. That's just normal iron palm. Masters can easily project the energy through objects. That's how people can break the middle brick in a stack of three without leaving a scratch on the other two.

Buddy, what wasnt constructive either. Following one arrogant assertion up with another doesnt help. You run around stating that half the crap on the board is apocryphal. It doesnt help, it only creates a negative vortex of energy on the thread and the forum as a whole. Its getting to the point of...so whatcha want, a cookie or something? We all know you question everything to the hilt and unless you get supreme undeniable evidence you're not going to believe one iota of it. Its becoming tiresome. Comments like these are like habanero - sometimes apropos and delicious, in an appropriate quantity and quality - but it quickly becomes too much and spoils the taste of the dish if you keep adding.
I swear, this forum needs one of those karma point systems so that the forum as a whole can collectively shut crap like this up and regulate itself. There shouldnt be a burden of crap on Sean to police anything, this would let him leave the forum to free itself of endless bitchery.
Yue too but not so blatant - if you guys can provide some sort of technical rebuttal or ask for one from who related the story, great, but - can any of you give a good description for the reason to use one application over another doing this or that in the aforementioned context of the last 7 posts. These techniques are all cousins of one another, how can you tell the difference in application?

"Is this post contributing to the forum?" should be a question everyone asks themselves before clicking that Add Reply button. Its only proper conduct toward the other members of the board.

All of these other palm styles are hogwash! (Do they use "hogwash" in Britian?)

No one can defeat my Hairy Palm technique! I was given the technique by the great and powerful Master Paul Reubens though I feel somehow as though I've been learning it all my life.
We have a special linament that we apply before the main practice, which involves working with the bodies essences.
One look at my Hairy Palm technique and the timid or weak are sent fleeing from the room.
I'd tell you more but I am only teaching a few students in my basement...

I learned my hairy-palm techniques from two "women" teachers. Left palm from Jacqueline and right palm from Rosarita.

I got burning palm from a hooker in 'Nam. I still have the scars. Welts keep returning monthly, so now I can share it with others.

Starjumper sounds like an eager student.

I think scorpion palm is actually a part of Poision Palm and apparently the herbs are very toxic, (scorpion) and must be balanced. My Jow uses scorpion also!

With the wrong instruction you can get very sick from it!!!

Mantra,

I know of 2 different Burning Palms one is from Tibet and the other is Daoist do you know who taught Max the Tibetan Burning Palm and its history?

WYG

"Buddy, what wasnt constructive either. Following one arrogant assertion up with another doesnt help. You run around stating that half the crap on the board is apocryphal. It doesnt help, it only creates a negative vortex of energy on the thread and the forum as a whole. Its getting to the point of...so whatcha want, a cookie or something? We all know you question everything to the hilt and unless you get supreme undeniable evidence you're not going to believe one iota of it. Its becoming tiresome. Comments like these are like habanero - sometimes apropos and delicious, in an appropriate quantity and quality - but it quickly becomes too much and spoils the taste of the dish if you keep adding."

Hi Joe,
Sorry, it doesn't matter if you don't like it. I had my issues with those past subjects and now it's Steve. Prove your shit or STFU! I can prove my stuff and have no problem with anyone wanting to come see to to do so.


"I swear, this forum needs one of those karma point systems so that the forum as a whole can collectively shut crap like this up and regulate itself."

Karma points? I don't even know how to address this seriously.

"There shouldnt be a burden of crap on Sean to police anything, this would let him leave the forum to free itself of endless bitchery."

I don't see where Sean has even entered into any of this. I've always seen him as pretty much even handed a voice of reason.

"Yue too but not so blatant - if you guys can provide some sort of technical rebuttal or ask for one from who related the story, great, but - can any of you give a good description for the reason to use one application over another doing this or that in the aforementioned context of the last 7 posts. These techniques are all cousins of one another, how can you tell the difference in application?"

I have no idea of what your asking here. But I don't want anyone to rely on "stories." Anyone can claim anything on an internet forum. I'm not going to tell you what I can do because of that very thing. But I would be more than happy to show you. That's been my stance all along.

"Is this post contributing to the forum?" should be a question everyone asks themselves before clicking that Add Reply button. Its only proper conduct toward the other members of the board."

Sorry, I'm not going to let some internet guy decide what I should say until I've realized they know more than I do. You haven't added anything here but what you think people should say. Who cares? Add something (I have) then comment. Otherwise....

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Mantra,

will there be time for Max to demonstrate burning or vibrating palm in oslo?

Hey Rain,
Max has been showing that stuff pretty regularly, so there is a good chance.

Actually, he is willing to show almost anything if you simply ask and if there is time.

Norway should be fun!

See you then.

Chris

Nice!

thanks

Did this type of demonstration occur in Oslo?

Can vibrating and burning palm be thought in Cologne Germany pleaaase

Yes, Max demonstrated both Tibetan burning palm and Scorpion palm on two gentlemen! :-) Really intriguing stuff!

Can someone give a quick discription of the training involved in his Tibetan Burning Palm system? I heard he has 9 levels, what is involved in these meditations moving or static postures?

cheers
WYG

There are 9 standing postures for each level, using reverse breathing and Red Dragon Qi Gong.

Thanks you guys.

There is another guy teaching Burning, Vibrating, blah blah palms in Hawaii, along with other stuff. He even sells videos of the training. I will have to look for the website name.

Thanks mantra,

Looks like the key behind many of the powers or skills of chi kung come from the reverse breathing patterns!

Regards
WYG

I believe the guy Smile is referring to can be found at this website. I believe Max was one of his teachers.

http://www.dragongatesanctuary.com/Welcome.html

Yes, this is Max's student.

Interesting information, what stuff did max teach him, Mantra?

I would be interested to see some Tibetan Circle walking and how close it is to Bagua, is there any clips?

That guy in Hawaii who is selling the tapes (innerselfcenter.com) is not authorized by Sifu Max to be selling those. He was a student but is not anymore... long story. So Max does not wish for people to purchase these tapes. What Max teaches now is complete within in itself as a root practice called Kunlun nei kung. There is a progression to follow when working with these energies and he feels its not safe for people to get those tapes with sporadic information. I have seen one of those tapes and I have to say it was good but the knowledge is not complete.

Its not the same dude as Philip Toledo!!!

Yes, it's http://www.dragongatesanctuary.com