Hi,
Maybe some of you have read my previous posts, and already know that I'm pretty much a newbie to everything. Surprisingly I'm still keeping up with my practice (25 mins now of Pranayama breathing, some Qi Gong, and some standing meditation plus seated meditation, overall I spend about an hour practicing). With all these Kunlun threads popping up, I'm thinking about giving that a try too. I visited the website and I'm a little suspicious of all this, especially the videos, and the pictures of Max's hands emanating light, etc... I'm a pretty skeptical person, so anything that seems fishy to me I dig deeper into. I've read nothing but positive comments about Kunlun on this forum and just wanted to know what other people thought about all this? From the outside looking in, it appears a little cultish, at least thats the vibe I get from it. I'm not trying to knock the practice as I haven't even given it a try yet, maybe someone can give me some reassurance.
Thanks
Peace

My advice.

Hold on to your skepticism.

Run away from any teacher who tells you you can't question things.

If your interested in Kunlun, buy the book and try the practice.

Direct experience.

cultish?
no, not at all. as long as you don't act like WYG when you ask questions you'll receive a positive response.

i don't believe any group mentality exists, or atleast i don't associate myself with it, or any group for that matter. i'm trying out kunlun myself to see how it works, and so far have been getting interesting results.
about Max, i've never met him but remain open minded to his abilities. how can you know without direct experience
i suggest you just try it out and see how it works out for you..

i frankly don't agree with the marketing tactics that Mantra uses, all this show of powers and abilities seems to attract a certain kind of people, so i understand your scepticism.

[quote I've read nothing but positive comments about Kunlun on this forum and just wanted to know what other people thought about all this? , maybe someone can give me some reassurance.
Thanks
Peace
[/quote]
?????????????????????
Are you being serious? Didn't you answer your own question in the same sentence?

Good advice. Seriousness is something I'm trying to get rid of , but what I meant was what do people think about the videos and the pictures of him emanating light on the website =). My question was worded wrong.
Mikaelz, I think that's what got to me though, the marketing of it on the site. Especially with testimonials and stuff, felt like watching an infomercial. Anyway, Ima order the book and see what happens. It's interesting how I always look to the advice of others before trying stuff out. Seems like I had the answer all along, direct experience.
Thanks all
Peace

DJShorty,

Look into it more before starting and you are correct its becoming a little CULTISH too!

I believe you would get much more from Vipasana meditation and has alot more information and history dont get caught up on the Mystical nonesense.

My opinion only!!!

WYG

mystical nonsense eh? why are you paying to go to a Kunlun seminar? to feel that 'mystical nonsense' yourself? hahah you're a funny guy i'll give you that

.....I'm a little suspicious of all this......

I'm wondering, cause I'm a new guy here also, what's with the Kunlun also. I'm 65 been around a long time and have seen a lot of people get caught up in "special" groups/movements/etc........even did so myself.......

Although I am not pointing fingers (believe me) I gotta wonder if this has anything to do with the 'way of Tao'
which seemingly has no short cuts or any especially magical qualities to it.

Is this Kunlun just a side issue or is this a promotion from this website?.........



The Practical Way

.

Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, and Lieh Tzu were walking together along a forest path one day when they came upon a fast flowing river that barred their way.

Immediately Lieh Tzu sat down on the bank of the river and mediated upon the eternal Tao. Ten minutes later he stood up and proceeded to walk on the water to the other side.

Next, Chuang Tzu, sat in the lotus position for twenty minutes, whereupon he stood up and also walked across the river.

Lao Tzu, watching this in amazement, shrugged his shoulders, sat down on the river bank like the others and meditated for over an hour. Finally, with complete trust in the Tao, he closed his eyes, took one step into the river and fell in.

On the other shore, Chuang Tzu laughed, turned to Lieh Tzu and said, “Should we tell him where the rocks are?”

Tao does not believe in any nonsense. It is very pragmatic, practical, and down to earth.

Tao does not believe in miracles; it believes in scientific methods to transform your life.

JJ, nothing cultish here. Just a good buzz about the practice. Correct that there are no short cuts, but there are indeed short paths and long paths! Kunlun is just a side issue here and a lot of people have been talking about it recently because of how well/quickly/easily a lot of us have taken to the practice.

Thank you JJW...
Yes! I also see the Taoist Way as a practical feet on the ground application of the real (scientific?!) knowledge we have amassed as beings seeking a meaningful path on this planet and within the wider scope of universal forces we hope to one day understand better, and then use as evolved and (I hope) still evolving beings...

the kunlun thing has my interest and I will at some point look into the practice with more intent and deeper questions...
But I am happy to be exposed to it here and will watch with interest as the practice expands. There does seem to be a humorous/pranksterish attitude eminating from the group...that is both compelling and apt to create a dubious element for some...

I for one hold humor in very high regard and even feel it is more important than any "political correctness" that "poor taste" may offend... people are funny. we ought to laugh at each other and ourselves for the many foibles we manifest so much of the time...

[/quote]
I for one hold humor in very high regard...........

Me too.......seriousness is a bit of a disease IMO.........and I suppose my Tao is a pretty simple one........never really think much about the headier aspect (understand it even less) but I am drawn to Oriental thought......

As far as the "cult" concept goes, all I can tell you is that we are NOT looking for followers. The practice is to empower individuals. To give them a method that can deliver real results without any dogma or dead-end paths. It becomes simply you and Tao (eventually just Tao).

There is a lot of talk on this forum but that is just because people realize that this stuff works. My continued presence here is due to the fact that we are very happy that people are having great results, and so we try to support and inform as needed, when possible.

Also, I serve to dispel any misconceptions about this practice like: Kunlun will give you "Hogzilla" between your legs and other such silliness.

I never said it would give you a Hogzilla I just said Max mentioned it would increase vitality!!

He mentioned things would "rise higher" if you want to get super technical.

Oh, you know he said it.

I don't see any big deal many qigong teachers say similar things. It's not like there is going to be a Kunlun infomercial on at 2 am after "The Extends Penis Extender" pill with "real life" testemonials.

I am a total kunlun noob and I was wondering, how many times per week and for how long should I practice kunlun since I am just starting? Don't want to overdo it.

I think the idea is to go by feel.

But he does give a general guideline of 1 hour in the book(followed by 20 min "close down") and that is what I am doing.

The vibe that I'm getting from Kunlun is that people are becoming so excited about it, that they are constantly posting and praising it. It isn't really because the "cultish" attitude, I'm not really getting that kind of feeling from it, its more like abunch of little kids talking about how ninja turtles is the shit. Sometimes excitement can be misinterpreted into ego, or bragging. I myself am guilty of this at times, I will become so excited about something, people around me will think of me as a bragger etc..
Anyways, I have yet to go to a seminar, and only have been practicing for a week, so this is just what I feel for now. I haven't ran into anything quite like Kunlun in my life, because it is actually working, and working fast. I will stick to my guns on this, and I honestly cannot wait to go to a seminar.

Ben

The people having trouble with us Kunluners are more uptight, pompous and serious than any Roman Catholics I know.

Just goes to show that Tao isn't immune to that sort of BS.

I'll take my Muslim Grandfather or Roman Catholics over these self righteous "crown chakra orgasm" and "if your excited about a practice your a snobby kid" losers any day.

Cam, my advice for ya...if you dont already know what Xin and Yi are, look 'em up. And learn to quiet your Xin and not use it quite so much, especially to post.

I didn't ask for your advice.

I already have my teachers.

I love how these arrogant, older Taoists(that are not teachers)are constantly spouting off advice without anyone asking for it.

cam,
you're being hostile to everyone these days. maybe celibacy isn't that good of an idea.

and i won't be visiting you in arizona because i may say something to offend you and you'll /ignore me by locking me in your basement.

what's your deal man? chill!

Hehe,

Alright. Maybe you have a point.

Joeblast, sorry I went off.

I will do my best to work on my Yi(really..I am..it's not easy!)

Cam

Kun Lun found me. I did not find it. It is opening my heart, and transforming all of me -bit by bit, at an alarming-thrilling rate- I love this.


Kun Lun found me. I did not find it. It is opening my heart, and transforming all of me -bit by bit, at an alarming-thrilling rate- I love this.

I know you didn't say that, but I just wanted to use the term "Hogzilla" cuz it's funny.

So, yes, Kunlun does take "the whoopy" to a whole new level, I must say.

Just one last post responding to my Texan friend no more posts after this until next weekend.

Don't mess with Texas.

The Taoist "scientific method" is much more vast than what we consider scientific method as framed by Descartes. And it includes what we would call miracles.

Maybe not so arrogant as cautious.........I once received the baptism of the Holy Spirit when i was a Christian.....same effect as the kunlun web site teaches........so, I think I'll pass, but our paths may very. :-)

As to teachers...on a more serious level I consider everyone I come in contact with to be a teacher except for those wearing the "I'm a teacher sign". .........might work for Karate lessons, but in spiritual life I see no short cuts............so if my questioning seems arrogant it's not meant to appear that way.

Personally I welcome the presence and experience of older practitioners.

It certainly isnt easy, even the most accomplished of us can attest to that at least ya didnt say try

Right on.



True. That makes us Born Again Taoists, come to think of it.

Ok, I'm a complete newbie. By chance I stumbled on Kunlun and got interested. I've recently purchased the book, lulu has informed me today it has been printed and shipped. So probably I'll be able to start reading by the end of next week. I have, however, found a lot of info already on this forum and have taken the liberty of putting what I found important together. So what you'll read next is a summary of what different people of this forum have said about kunlun, enjoy and please feel free to correct any errors as I am here (as in life) to learn :

Kunlun level 1
If you are interested in a spiritual path that cuts out all of the fluff and B.S. then this is for you. The method itself is like the path of enlightenment: free of that which is not needed. Don’t expect anything though, each Kunlun practice will most likely be different from the last. If you want to start with Kunlun, remember that practice at least once every day is required. The following are some examples of how your schedule might look: “get ready/comfy and do the visualization for a min or two untill ready to start -> 40min Active Kunlun -> 20min Closing form” OR “get ready/comfy and do the visualization for 10 min, 1 hour Kunlun I and (at least) 20 min closing down”

3 stages:

Stage 1 – You start with a simple visualization where you see yourself floating on a white lotus in the middle of a cloudless sky. Above, under and all around you is cloudless sky. Then you imagine white light all around you and breathe white light into yourself and breathe out toxic energies.

Stage 2 -Things get interesting. You hold you arms a special way and your feet a special way. The book says to hold this position for 10 minutes. Then, if things don't start happening spontaneously, you’re either supposed to adjust your position or stop and sit quietly. Basically the time limit of an hour is just a guideline. Your body will tell you when to stop. Max said that eventually you’ll reach a point where you will be done with the level 1 part in 5 minutes. Don’t be too concerned about the time, just do what feels best.
Possible effects of Kunlun - shaking or bouncing legs, upper body moving in a counter clockwise direction (spiraling), feeling of arms and hands being filled with chi, slowly moving up and slightly away from the body, intense heat (the sweat can completely drench your clothes), feelings of deep peace and relaxation, making sounds with your mouth (animal or healing like sounds), affects the brain and puts op energycenters in the body, …
Possible Visual effects – during or right after practice: colours can change, events happen faster or slower, objects in your vision can start to move slightly or get a pretty disctinct outline, … (so watch out in traffic of when working with heavy machinery. These visual changes you are experiencing, is just your own wisdom eye opening. It’s common.
Bouncy legs - this is the energy that is activating. If one leg is bouncing more than the other, that clues you in as to what type of energy needs to manifest greater in your life. Left leg is yin, right leg is yang. If one gets lots of right leg, then you are being too soft in your life; if one gets more left leg, then you are being too fiery and aggressive.
Spiraling - The spiraling is just a suggestion. If you are feeling movement you should just go with it. Spiraling clockwise will create the downward flow. Spiraling counter-clockwise will bring the energy up. Clockwise is what is recommended for Kunlun. Side to side is good too.
Heel of floor - This activates the energy. Your legs will begin to bounce and this energy will move up through your dan tiens if you let it. Again, you must not think too much in Kunlun. Feeling is the key.. When you have excess muscular tension in the calves and lower legs (which can occur when holding up your heels), leaning forward slightly might help OR relax the toes into the ground.

Stage 3 - Sitting in silence for 20 minutes. Just sit quietly with your hands over your navel. Pretty simple. Nothing special to report here. Though Max says that this 20 minutes at the end of sitting quietly is the most important part. This is because in this stage, you will be storing the generated energy in your lower dan tien.

During Practice:

• It is best to get out of the mind and allow this energy to do its work. This is also referred to the Formless Form. You start with a posture, but then you let everything go as the Kunlun activates. The analytical mind is best applied AFTER the practice. So the approach should be the same as emptiness meditation. No expectations, no goal, just allowing the energy (and movements) to do its thing.

• Eyes open or closed in level one position & sitting meditation afterwards: If you keep them open, they should be two-thirds open and looking down at a 45 degree angle. Relaxed. (Some like to keep them closed or wide open when they use the Mindfold mask they got from Alex Grey: http://alexgrey.com/shop.html - Very cool for really going deep apparently). In Austin's "Zen and the Brain" it states that keeping the eyes open helps keep an attentive awareness that carries over more readily to daily life, although it is harder to begin with. Some people regularly use earplugs too, but never all the time. Doing so really helps you feel your breath and make it more calm/soft/slender to the point where you dont hear it anymore... Which results in no turbulence in your air passageways. So again, it's feeling your way around this one and choosing the option that suits you best.

EXTRA

Watch Out – Kunlun can bring back (sometimes long suppressed) emotions. It does get rid of them, but before you lose these “demons”, there is a real chance that you will first have to encounter/face them again. All of the things you have within are revealed. You must be brave on this path because you will have to face yourself. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Mistake in book – In one of the threads it states that there is a mistake in the book for the level 1 exercise. On page 39 point #5, it says to put your left hand above at the throat level with the palm facing down, while the photo on page 42 actually had the right hand on top. This is one of those times where right-over-left/left-over-right doesn’t really matter so much as centering the palms and holding your hands over the lower dan-tien. Keep in mind though, that the starting posture should be right above left! This explanation is about the closing down posture. Once you feel the energy open you can forget the hand posture and let it go. Spiraling clockwise draws the energy down, while spiraling counterclockwise draws the energy up. Do clockwise for the cooling effect. It will merge with any rising fire to achieve balance in the heart. Not practicing alone seems to intensify the experience.
Benefits – It improves: your ability for stillness meditation, ability to sit cross legged for longer periods of time, flexibility of the legs, less hunger feeling, cleansing of your material and energetic self, ...
Special – if you’re sincere enough and have the right heart/mind, the transmission from sifu max could happen in a dream.
When do I start level 2 ? - The general guideline seems to be: practice for one hour a day for six months, then move on. However it seems this will be different for every individual. There are people that have started level two after 2 to 3 months of daily practice. Others have practiced level 1 for several years before moving on. It’s not about serving any lineage, it’s about empowerment. But do keep in mind that the general idea is NOT to attempt level two until you have done level one for 3 to 6 months. Your nervous system must have that time to adjust to the increase in current. If you push it, it won’t work and you might actually hurt yourself!

Some good basic info: http://www.alchemicaltaoism.com/ (trunk)
Website Kunlun nei gung, you can find the book here: http://www.kunlunbliss.com/index.html


Questions that did not get honoured with an answer (perhaps this time they will ? ):
1. What is the purpose of using the GimJee (sword fingers) ?
2. Chapter 6 deals with sexual energy and chapter 13 with dual cultivation. Are there enough pointers in there to adapt whatever practice I’m doing so that it doesn’t cause problems with this Kunlun practice?
3. Is the animal skin rug a necessity if you're practicing inside? I can understand about outside. Usually I do my meditation sitting on a round leather-type material pillow, on my couch (the pillow allows me to sit up straight and not use the back.) Its a decent height (w/ cushion) to have my feet on the floor, though I'm pretty comfortable cross legged. Yea, I was wondering about that. Can it basically just be any "electrical" insulator. Like, if your floor is carpeted, would that suffice?

re:sword finger....I did some brief looking around online and didnt find too much that stuck out, other than that there was some sort of energetic significance to it.

Lung 11(yin, exit, wood) channel on thumb connects Triple Heater 1 (yang, entry, metal), Heart 9 (yin, exit, wood), Small Intestine 1(yang, entry, metal); Pericardium (yin, 8/9 exit) and Large Intestine (1 yang, entry, metal) point forward.

Looks like there is a balance of yin & yang in the form as well as a balance of entry/exit among jing-well points....anything deeper requires some more analysis...but that's what I came up with in ~10 minutes of looking around...