I've been rather lax this year with the insult policy but the last several weeks I've noticing an increase in personal attacks on the forum. Nothing over the top offensive, but still it's disruptive of the vibe and so I want to take a second to bring you back to center again and remind you that a little rowdiness is fine but stop and take a breath before zipping off another personal jab.
Here is a repost of our insult policy, please read it and abide by it:
No personal insults.
It is totally fine to vocally disagree with a person's opinion, technique, politics, approach, lifestyle choice, etc.
But no insulting (or links to attacks) of individuals, nationalities, genders, political preferences, lifestyle choices, etc.
While this may sound restrictive and categorically un-Taoist, I believe it is a useful guideline to help us stop for a moment and think about how to present our perspectives intelligently without just flinging unproductive rudeness at each other. This way other members can receive value from your perspective and you can gain clarity by reasoning out why you initially felt compelled to verbally put down someone else for being different. No one, including the originating poster, gains anything from statements like "So and so is a complete moron", etc. If you have an opinion and you believe it's relevant to a topic at hand, post it as constructively as possible so we can learn from you, debate with you, ignore you, whatever.
If you can't abide by this simple constructive guideline, either create your post in "The Pit" or expect it to be moved there. This is our mini-octagon here for those of you that insist on a more primitive breed of taoist war.
Thanks,
Sean.
Full Version: Insult policy reminder
Thanks for the reminder Sysop.
Michael
Michael
QUOTE(thelerner @ Dec 3 2007, 07:27 PM) 
Thanks for the reminder Sysop.
Michael
Oh man, that is some old school right there. Were you a fellow BBS'er?
Argument Checklist
• Is this subject worth arguing about?
• Have I gathered enough evidence to make an argument?
• Do I represent the views of my opponents in a way they would consider fair?
• Have I developed my argument logically?
• Is my use of evidence accurate?
• Have I tried to prove too much?
Rules for Fair Argument
1. Argue about something meaningful; interest and commitment to a trivial argument is unlikely. If you consistently choose to argue over trivial matters, others soon will learn to pay little attention; then, when a legitimately important issue arises, your input will have been negated.
2. Argue in the present tense; do not unnecessarily drag in the past. People who save the past for another day are "gunny- sacking," an unproductive practice. This practice only invites reciprocal behavior on the part of others which degenerates your arguments into a mud slinging exercise.
3. Argue about one event, behavior, want, need, expectation, or statement at a time; do not try to link items -- separate each one -- this is truly hard to do and it takes time; but it is a worthwhile strategy.
4. When an argument is over, agree that it's over -- done for good, never to be heard of again! Never try to reopen an old argument -- this is not only not fair, it is suicide; if you allow one old argument to be restarted, then your adversary is free to open others too. This cycle never ends!
5. Finish each argument you start -- do not leave an argument in mid-stream. Leaving an argument unfinished leaves parties vulnerable to it being reopened at a most inopportune time, place, and manner.
6. Argue without the aid of coaching, without employing allies. Otherwise, your arguments become "team" efforts. Such teams tend to grow and eventually you are just a pawn.
7. Argue honestly -- make no false or misleading claims, use no phony evidence, nor employ exaggerations.
8. Find a time when all parties are calm, available, and willing to argue -- some delay is OK to calm emotions, but not an elongated or manipulative delay.
9. Argue face-to-face; using phone calls, memos, letters, or third parties is not ethical nor are these tactics usually effective.
10. Avoid cheap-shot emotional tugs (ie: crying, shouting, threatening others, threatening suicide, and name-calling).
11. Keep your talk personalized (ie: use "I," "me," "my," "mine" not "you," "they," "them," "everyone,").
12. Keep argument subtopics relevant -- do not get sidetracked or try to change the subject.
13. Do not monopolize the argument; give others a chance to be an equal part.
14. Do not play guilt trips with the other party.
15. Directly respond to accusations; do not minimize, catastr ophize, or ignore them.
16. Describe, don't express emotions during the argument; if you cannot control yourself emotionally, call a time-out.
17. Claim and admit to your own feelings -- do not generalize or externalize them.
18. Label inferences as just that -- inferences are not facts, observations, or experiences; they are guesses, no matter how skilled.
19. Supply open, complete, and honest support for the claims that you make -- do not be evasive, coy, or "fuzzy" about what you mean.
20. Don't argue about everything. If everything is subject to a fight, then there is no real priority for the really important occurrences.
21. Do not start another argument right after one is over. This is not fair nor is it productive. It is likely to produce resentment.
22. Do not gloat over a victory or catastrophize a loss. Your behavior in other arguments is bound to influence how open and honest others are with you in future arguments.
23. Do not belabor points; when a point is made, agree on that and go on to the next point.
24. Avoid negatively charged and personally attacking terms (ie: fool, idiot, stupid, lazy, weird, crazy, ass-hole, free-loader, etc.)
25. Keep your language as clear, concrete, specific, and neutral as you can. If your adversary fails to do this, ask for clarification.
• Is this subject worth arguing about?
• Have I gathered enough evidence to make an argument?
• Do I represent the views of my opponents in a way they would consider fair?
• Have I developed my argument logically?
• Is my use of evidence accurate?
• Have I tried to prove too much?
Rules for Fair Argument
1. Argue about something meaningful; interest and commitment to a trivial argument is unlikely. If you consistently choose to argue over trivial matters, others soon will learn to pay little attention; then, when a legitimately important issue arises, your input will have been negated.
2. Argue in the present tense; do not unnecessarily drag in the past. People who save the past for another day are "gunny- sacking," an unproductive practice. This practice only invites reciprocal behavior on the part of others which degenerates your arguments into a mud slinging exercise.
3. Argue about one event, behavior, want, need, expectation, or statement at a time; do not try to link items -- separate each one -- this is truly hard to do and it takes time; but it is a worthwhile strategy.
4. When an argument is over, agree that it's over -- done for good, never to be heard of again! Never try to reopen an old argument -- this is not only not fair, it is suicide; if you allow one old argument to be restarted, then your adversary is free to open others too. This cycle never ends!
5. Finish each argument you start -- do not leave an argument in mid-stream. Leaving an argument unfinished leaves parties vulnerable to it being reopened at a most inopportune time, place, and manner.
6. Argue without the aid of coaching, without employing allies. Otherwise, your arguments become "team" efforts. Such teams tend to grow and eventually you are just a pawn.
7. Argue honestly -- make no false or misleading claims, use no phony evidence, nor employ exaggerations.
8. Find a time when all parties are calm, available, and willing to argue -- some delay is OK to calm emotions, but not an elongated or manipulative delay.
9. Argue face-to-face; using phone calls, memos, letters, or third parties is not ethical nor are these tactics usually effective.
10. Avoid cheap-shot emotional tugs (ie: crying, shouting, threatening others, threatening suicide, and name-calling).
11. Keep your talk personalized (ie: use "I," "me," "my," "mine" not "you," "they," "them," "everyone,").
12. Keep argument subtopics relevant -- do not get sidetracked or try to change the subject.
13. Do not monopolize the argument; give others a chance to be an equal part.
14. Do not play guilt trips with the other party.
15. Directly respond to accusations; do not minimize, catastr ophize, or ignore them.
16. Describe, don't express emotions during the argument; if you cannot control yourself emotionally, call a time-out.
17. Claim and admit to your own feelings -- do not generalize or externalize them.
18. Label inferences as just that -- inferences are not facts, observations, or experiences; they are guesses, no matter how skilled.
19. Supply open, complete, and honest support for the claims that you make -- do not be evasive, coy, or "fuzzy" about what you mean.
20. Don't argue about everything. If everything is subject to a fight, then there is no real priority for the really important occurrences.
21. Do not start another argument right after one is over. This is not fair nor is it productive. It is likely to produce resentment.
22. Do not gloat over a victory or catastrophize a loss. Your behavior in other arguments is bound to influence how open and honest others are with you in future arguments.
23. Do not belabor points; when a point is made, agree on that and go on to the next point.
24. Avoid negatively charged and personally attacking terms (ie: fool, idiot, stupid, lazy, weird, crazy, ass-hole, free-loader, etc.)
25. Keep your language as clear, concrete, specific, and neutral as you can. If your adversary fails to do this, ask for clarification.
QUOTE(Sifu Stigweard @ Jan 12 2008, 01:01 AM)
Argument Checklist
• Is this subject worth arguing about?
• Have I gathered enough evidence to make an argument?
• Do I represent the views of my opponents in a way they would consider fair?
• Have I developed my argument logically?
• Is my use of evidence accurate?
• Have I tried to prove too much?
Rules for Fair Argument
1. Argue about something meaningful; interest and commitment to a trivial argument is unlikely. If you consistently choose to argue over trivial matters, others soon will learn to pay little attention; then, when a legitimately important issue arises, your input will have been negated.
2. Argue in the present tense; do not unnecessarily drag in the past. People who save the past for another day are "gunny- sacking," an unproductive practice. This practice only invites reciprocal behavior on the part of others which degenerates your arguments into a mud slinging exercise.
3. Argue about one event, behavior, want, need, expectation, or statement at a time; do not try to link items -- separate each one -- this is truly hard to do and it takes time; but it is a worthwhile strategy.
4. When an argument is over, agree that it's over -- done for good, never to be heard of again! Never try to reopen an old argument -- this is not only not fair, it is suicide; if you allow one old argument to be restarted, then your adversary is free to open others too. This cycle never ends!
5. Finish each argument you start -- do not leave an argument in mid-stream. Leaving an argument unfinished leaves parties vulnerable to it being reopened at a most inopportune time, place, and manner.
6. Argue without the aid of coaching, without employing allies. Otherwise, your arguments become "team" efforts. Such teams tend to grow and eventually you are just a pawn.
7. Argue honestly -- make no false or misleading claims, use no phony evidence, nor employ exaggerations.
8. Find a time when all parties are calm, available, and willing to argue -- some delay is OK to calm emotions, but not an elongated or manipulative delay.
9. Argue face-to-face; using phone calls, memos, letters, or third parties is not ethical nor are these tactics usually effective.
10. Avoid cheap-shot emotional tugs (ie: crying, shouting, threatening others, threatening suicide, and name-calling).
11. Keep your talk personalized (ie: use "I," "me," "my," "mine" not "you," "they," "them," "everyone,").
12. Keep argument subtopics relevant -- do not get sidetracked or try to change the subject.
13. Do not monopolize the argument; give others a chance to be an equal part.
14. Do not play guilt trips with the other party.
15. Directly respond to accusations; do not minimize, catastr ophize, or ignore them.
16. Describe, don't express emotions during the argument; if you cannot control yourself emotionally, call a time-out.
17. Claim and admit to your own feelings -- do not generalize or externalize them.
18. Label inferences as just that -- inferences are not facts, observations, or experiences; they are guesses, no matter how skilled.
19. Supply open, complete, and honest support for the claims that you make -- do not be evasive, coy, or "fuzzy" about what you mean.
20. Don't argue about everything. If everything is subject to a fight, then there is no real priority for the really important occurrences.
21. Do not start another argument right after one is over. This is not fair nor is it productive. It is likely to produce resentment.
22. Do not gloat over a victory or catastrophize a loss. Your behavior in other arguments is bound to influence how open and honest others are with you in future arguments.
23. Do not belabor points; when a point is made, agree on that and go on to the next point.
24. Avoid negatively charged and personally attacking terms (ie: fool, idiot, stupid, lazy, weird, crazy, ass-hole, free-loader, etc.)
25. Keep your language as clear, concrete, specific, and neutral as you can. If your adversary fails to do this, ask for clarification.
I prefer discuss, point of view, opinion, my understanding, the way I was taught, my impression, rather than argue.
QUOTE(mYTHmAKER @ Jan 13 2008, 05:15 AM)
I prefer discuss, point of view, opinion, my understanding, the way I was taught, my impression, rather than argue.
I'm with you. However, when things get to the point of an arguement some rules of engagement are beneficial.
[bump]
I know Sean posted this fairly recently. I'm just putting it out there as a gentle remininder that it is possible to discuss our differences without devolving into insults.
Peace,
V.
I know Sean posted this fairly recently. I'm just putting it out there as a gentle remininder that it is possible to discuss our differences without devolving into insults.
Peace,
V.
whoops i didnt mean to do another reply, just withdrawn
withdrawn
sorry I hope insults "in toto" (as a whole like: you are all ignorant fools) is ok...if not let me know.
all the best K.
all the best K.
QUOTE(prince K. @ Sep 15 2008, 11:28 PM)
sorry I hope insults "in toto" (as a whole like: you are all ignorant fools) is ok...if not let me know.
all the best K.
I'd stay away from insulting Toto. Sean likes dogs and is very fond of 'The Wizard of Oz"
Gaaziiing
If you must insult Toto, its probably better to do it as a whole (though not the ass kind) and
say it like: ( we are all ignorant fools
) Which is undoubtedly closer to the Truth.My two cents
Michael
We must all strive to be humble. You may be a prince, but you still 11th in line.
Cause A through J outrank you.
QUOTE(thelerner @ Sep 19 2008, 12:38 PM)
I'd stay away from insulting Toto. Sean likes dogs and is very fond of 'The Wizard of Oz"
Gaaziiing
If you must insult Toto, its probably better to do it as a whole (though not the ass kind) and
say it like: ( we are all ignorant fools
) Which is undoubtedly closer to the Truth.My two cents
Michael
We must all strive to be humble. You may be a prince, but you still 11th in line.
Cause A through J outrank you.
Thanks for this
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