Has anyone managed to find a teacher in China? All the discussion here seems to be about teachers in the West - even though a few people do seem to in China...

A teacher in what?

Daoist nei gong, mainly, I guess...

There are so many people out in China who know bits and pieces of both Buddhism and Daoism, and so they claim to be teachers. There are martial artists that know more of the bits and pieces but claim complete teachings. They also have qigong methods they would teach somewhat openly.
Daoist monks would teach, but if they don't know you, or feel no fate with you, they wouldn't give anything out.

There are teachers out here, but they do keep quiet from public eye...gov. reasons...lol

Finding one would be your blessings from heaven, for Daoism cultivates the Heavenly way, and Buddhism cultivates for any level of mind one wishes to attain...but mainly for becoming a Buddha...lol

So finding a teacher as open as people are in the west is not going to happen, unless you know someone.

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

Finding a daoist master in china doesnt mean you will get anything better then anywhere else, IMHO but living and training in china under a daoist or buddhist would be good as living in China you learn to understand the chinese way of thinking and ways of doing things that is not in the west. So you can grasp why some of the teachings are as what they are cause of the cultural differences. But if its Nei Gung, chi kung or kung fu finding a teacher anywhere is hard to find especially in the art you want to cultivate.

WYG

I'm in China, and I don't want to go back to Europe. So my question was: "Has anyone managed to find a teacher in China?" as a prelude to asking how people who've found a satisfactory teacher how they went about it...

I realise guanxi are important in China and that there are lots of charlatans or people who exaggerate their abilities. But if I can understand how people have found good teachers, unless it's always been pure chance, perhaps I have some chance of replicating their success.

SURE, I DID.

Ok - please tell us the story...

Well, almost by chance i have met a national of my country, who while being a professional synologist and a PhD level chinese linguist was also a fanatical martial arts and qigong practitioner. This man dedicated around 10 years of his life to searching all over China for the true teacher. He has found one, become his private student and accepted myself into the lineage.

Cool, what system you training?

What do you mean "feel no fate with you"?



I believe there are some great orginizations out in Europe and some great martial art teachers out there. I've read a few of them online. As to being complete systems and so forth. I don't really do doubt it but i feel its much better then it is out in the U.S. maybe I'm just thinking that the grass is greener on the other side

Procurator, are you in China studying directly or is more like the David Shen type students who travel to China for a few weeks a year?

Thanks

Michael

Daoists usually look to the fate between them and a potential student. If the student has potential, and good karma with the teachings and or with the master as well, then the master would impart some methods to them.

That is what having fate is in the Daoist school.

Peace,
Lin

Mind explaining "what having fate is in the daoist school" like i'm stupid.

From my understanding your saying that if the fate of a person is good. Then a Taoist teacher will impart some methods to them. Meaning that the student themselves have great potential in them.

But my understanding of Fate is Fate deters what your path, for a simple and easy example, like desire. Destiny is that which you must fulfill in this lifetime. It is believed your born with a task, or tasks. During your life, you must continually strive to identify it and complete it to its last detail. This is no simple errand. People take there whole life to do this.

Then it gets into a discussion about Karma and past lives. The issue we talk about the complexities of transcending the consequences of past lives. Yeah anyway gets into a discussion I don't know enough about to want to start a topic about it.

Now that i think more about it and the way your saying it are you saying if the person fate isn't so bad, that he has little to overcome to become a great student?

Fate is if you have affinities with that teacher, and the teachings. Nothing more

Wu-Lu Pai.


i travel.

So are you then claiming unless you have fate with a teacher then they basically will not teach you. I mean except for special circumstances?

Are you talking about David Shen?, of the foundation training forum?
Is David Shen associated with the teacher/lineage that you are studying with?

no of course not.

Yes, and Some teachers would take a student if the student presents a good amount of money. (In China)

Even if it seemed a teacher was being sincere, it is because of fate with that student. Which is not hard to create. All one needs to have in their mind when looking for a teacher, is a humble manner, and constantly intending to meet one.

In the end, any teacher one finds, is not by chance. It is fate. Fate goes deeper, and is controlled by one's own mind. It can be changed, and can be fixed. Fixed means not changeable. Its quite easy to create affinities with people. Just keep in mind of meeting them, and with enough concentration, one will begin meeting people who know people...

Peace and Blessings,
Lin

You mean the necromantic gourd school?
Also, there's a distinction between "ming" and "yuan fen" in Chinese culture.

"Ming" is fate - and considered a very strong influence that was almost unavoidable.
"Yuan fen" is more like serendipitous synchronicity that was somewhat predestined...but also required action to happen.

I'm not sure if these high Taoists really required "ming" or just some "yuan fen"...or lacking all else, maybe just a lot of RMB, lol.

Ah, nice and i look up to you. For I have just a little here and there but ultimately not read much on Taoism but the little I have is the translations in english. Therefore my understandings might be weakly represented. meaning, my understanding the certain words and meanings in english when it doesn't exactly apply to the english dictionary as the verbatim, but yet similar. For example,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Fate
Definition 1. and 3. are alright definitions but don't think it still does the word justice. The translation what i meant to talk about is "Ming" as Vortex as so well pointed out.

Thanks Vortex for the translations I personally really appreciate information like that. It adds to my understandings and translations.

What i was trying to point out is. If you yourself are part of the Ming of the teachers life, then the teacher isn't really a master. Or rather should I say he might be a teacher, might be a master, but he has not yet mastered Fate.

I do strongly agree with Vortex and truly believe with 100% of my heart that Fate, or "Ming" is almost impossible to avoid and you it is as a stepping stone you must over come no matter how hard it is just to come closer to become more spiritual, or what i believe is roughly translated in english to become your destiny.

Only my understandings from what I have studied and once again they are not very vast in knowledge.

Either way. It can all be changed, by changing one's views, behavior and habits.

Peace and Blessings.
Lin

I have a name and contact info of a Daoist master that lives in Beijing, and is a friend of my master.

He charges quite a heavy price, and if you are not fluent in Mandarin, you have to hire a translator.

He's a former monk at Wudan mountain.

PM me and I'll make some phonecalls.

h

Thanks for the offer - but my experience with Chinese teachers who charge a heavy price has been quite negative...

Anyone else have experiences like this?
Damn... the thought of even going to china to learn under a teacher (whom i'm sure will not teach me very traditional stuff.) but the point is just to work your a$$ off as hard as possible and spend every waking moment practicing, refining, and growing, and understanding what is happening to the internal subtleties. Just for the sakes of proving you did the hard training program and fought you own mental, emotional, and physical obstructions that have created throughout your whole life.

Yet, I still truly believe that you will not learn many or much traditional martial arts, and even if you do, no matter how complex and full the system it is. It will not be taught very deep, to the real systems heart from where it was originated from.

What are other peoples experiences with it if they have actually gone to china just to learn a supposedly fantastic system, and spend all this money to learn it?

I know of a Yin Style Bagua Master out in Beijing... One of the Best in China I would bet anything on it.
When I mean Bagua, I don't mean just form. It is application of body and mind/intent/will. The man knows his stuff, teaches Qigong as well. Very good stuff.

His name is Xu Shi Xi, and teaches out in Tiantan Park. 100rmb a day for 4-6 hours training daily. He is a straight forward man, and humble as well.. to an extent..lol meaning when he is hitting you, it isn't humble...for him. My own Bagua teacher learned from him, and one of my close friends is studying with him.

http://www.xushixi.com/en/index.asp

Peace,
Lin

Thats fine.

No matter, if you don't come with a letter of reccomendation from a highly respected master, this is the way to get access to quality teachings.

He charges about 100 Dollars for a private session.

I think that's about as much as any western teacher would have charged for the same. Or less.

Anyhoop, the issue here is remebering that as a westerner, you are by all standards loaded in comparaison to any chinese student. It is a matter of courtesy to respect these cultural differences. These people just try to make a living too.

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Yet again, if your "fate" is to meet a teacher who takes you in for free, be my guest.

h

Thanks for the link - impossible to find on google! I've cross-posted it to Emptyflower - there are some Bagua guys in Beijing who might like to check him out.



Comparisons with a western teacher are stupid - they have to pay western living expenses, not much lower chinese living expenses. It's not a cultural difference, it's an economic difference. The cultural difference is an acceptance of discrimination against foreigners, which would be morally unacceptable in many western countries. I don't see how courtesy demands that anyone respects that.

And the amounts are pretty outrageous (by Chinese standards - 如乡随俗). USD100 = RMB 800 = around 25% of average monthly salary in Beijing.

I don't know if you've been to China, but if you'd seen all the people driving around in huge SUVs - which are heavily taxed here, and more expensive than in some western countries - the cafes and bars with near western prices, etc, you'd realise that to assume that assuming westerners are "loaded in comparaison (sic) to any chinese student" is nonsensical. There's a significant wealthy middle/upper class in the cities.


No need to be sarcastic. I thanked you for your offer, but declined it & explained why. My experience with one teacher who charged a lot was quite negative, and I can see how making that kind of money from expendable foreigners could be corrupting. Rip off one for all you can get, there'll be another one along soon.

& I haven't asked for anything for free, including lunch. If I prefer to order from the chinese version of menu, that's my call.

Wow! bam! nicely put.

In my prospective (no matter how narrow my knowledge in this area seems to be) there is no reason the price should be different. I'm sure many times they are different. I'm not doubting this. but to serve what new purpose thats different? In the end there is no special reason i truly believe. Its rather the fact that they can do it and get away with it, nicely and easily.

Yes, I've lived in China

My master is from Beijing

The price of a teaching is not related to living expenses.

You are right, the difference in price is due to the fact that we are from the west. You have to take into account that we are waltzing into their home turf like elphants in a procelain shop, and after even years of living in China, westerners step on toes all the time. It takes decades to grasp the cultural codes and nuances in interaction. So if I, as a western man come to a Chinese master asking for a teaching, there is no straight forward exchange that is supposed to happen. It does not work that way.

There's alot of rich people in Beijing. But there is even more poverty. A block away from the hideouos shopping malls people are living in a different century. The upper 5 % have alot, the majority have very little.

But my original post was not an attempt to be sarcastic, and I actually made you a generous offer to get access to a highly acclaimed master that would be inaccessible for all western and many Chinese students.

You cannot order from the chinese version of the menu.

h

The reason is lack of information. China's a huge place, and the number of westerners interested enough in this kind of material to come here to learn it is probably small in comparison with the number of people in China who have a good grasp of it & would be prepared to teach it to reasonably dedicated students if there were less of a language barrier. But a relatively small proportion of these potential teachers get a western disciple who publicises them & all the demand goes their way, so they can charge very high prices.


I think you implied it was/should be: "These people just try to make a living too."

There's some truth in this, but I think you're exaggerating it. I could be wrong. I've seen bulls in chinashops (no pun intended) and how quickly they can lose Chinese friends goodwill. On the other hand, once people know you, and know you mean well, in my experience, they give you the benefit of the doubt many times over.

I'm not sure how this justifies charging many times the price a chinese person would pay. Teacher student relationships are rarely straightforward in any culture I suspect.

Absolutely. But you said "as a westerner, you are by all standards loaded in comparaison to any chinese student." For the middle-upper class this logic is false - as you say the wealthy are wealthy by western standards. And most of the less well off work such long hours that they wouldn't have time for serious study. So the wealthy are probably the relevant group for comparison.

I appreciate the offer, as I said. Only the last two sentences seemed sarcastic & I apologise if that wasn't intended. If you can get me a good discount on the 100$ I'll check out your master next time I'm in Beijing. Now we have guanxi, and we should do things the Chinese way, 是吧!

I do for pretty much everything else, including taiji classes. Sometimes I get "better than Chinese prices" via guanxi - to the extent that I sometimes have mixed feelings about it (especially for medical treatment). Guess I'll just have to see if I can work the guanxi - thought I was leaving the area so there are still quite a few unexplored leads....

But if there's any more info out there, especially about Yunnan, I'd appreciate it...