Several people have mentioned this, so I think it deserves a thread of its own. All the talk of magnetic qi in the Kunlun circles makes this particularly relevant.

Peter Ragnar's page here

discussion of magnetic qigong on the HT forum here

Seems a little too commercial for my liking. His website reads like a bad 3am infomercial.

If I were enlightened, or was under the tutelage of a truly enlightened master, I would make the teachings as cheap and as widely available as possible.

I read an article a few years back about how Peter Ragnar met Matt Furey and learned about internet marketing from him.

Bindo are you objecting to someone using internet marketing tactics as being discrediting towards what is being offered? Who is being superficial the marketer or you?


MWight
"If I were enlightened, or was under the tutelage of a truly enlightened master, I would make the teachings as cheap and as widely available as possible."

How do you know this is not the case with Ragnar?

Do you really think anyone is getting rich promoting Qigong?

The following are the traditional 4 requirements for successful cultivation.
Fa - Cai - Lu - Di
Method - Finance - Company - Environment.

You must have a method. But it is not enough.
You must have some support, financial, family, friends etc.
Company. You must have some people to connect with the share notes, ground you, etc.
You must have a good environment in which to cultivate.

A recurring theme I hear from people is that of objecting to teachers charging for spiritual work.

You should expect a coach to charge you to train you physically - a personal trainer.
You should expect an acupuncturist to charge you to work on your Qi layer (as an example).
Why wouldn't you expect a spiritual teacher to charge to educate you as well??

Hey, Priests earn a living from their church and/or congregation. Why do we think it is wrong for other spiritual teachers to earn a living also??

You want to do cultivation? You need support. Unless you have managed to achieve full time breatharianism then I suppose you won't need money...but then I guess you have already cultivated, and had support to get to that point

Freeform
How about some comment? You posted the link, but what do you know or surmise from your perusal of Ragnar's material, especially with regard to "Magnetic" Qi?

Craig

Craig,

Look at this guys storefront and tell me your Bullshytometer doesn't roll over a few times.
http://www.roaringlionpublishing.com/store/



Every bit as fake as http://www.alexchiu.com/ magnetic immortality device crap.

Kiss my ass! Did I raise any objections? Did I say anything to discredit him or his offerings? Mwight mentioned the marketing on his website so I mentioned where he learned it. A simple statement! Do you have a fucking problem with that?

Maybe it's not a good idea to post when you wake up with a bug up your ass.

One more shitstarter trying to confirm their existence by stirring up controversy where there is none.

ouch sorry I shouldn't have expressed my negative opinions of him. I didn't mean to kick off a flame war.

Yo, Dude!!! Chill.

Sorry to have riled you. I was Trying to point out that just because someone is using "slick" marketing does not necessarily mean they are full of shit. You are correct, your simple statement merely pointed out the connection between him and Matt Furey without any judgement. But it seemed clear to me that there was an inference.

Who has a bug up their ass? Look to the degree of your reaction to my writing. Flame off bro.

Craig

Usually your posts are insightful and thoughtful and I look forward to reading them. Couldn't you have made your point w/out a challenging, "in your face" tone?

I'm sorry for unleashing on you.

G

Wow, that was uncalled for. FWIW I agree completely with Craig. I never get why people get riled up by marketing. If it's fake that's another thing, but everyone has an obligation to support themselves and teachers, doctors, and long shoremen all get as much as they can for their work

****************Update**********

Looks like Alex Chiu is just plain bonkers

who got riled up about marketing besides Craig? He took a jab at me about something I didn't even say. That's dropping a challenge to me, and one I won't put up with either. I think the tone of his post was aggressive.

Otherwise, I agree with what he said about being paid for spiritual teachings.

Also, just so we're clear about this,...I could not possibly care any less how anyone decides to market their product, service or whatever. I just don't care.

I don't know anybody that does magnetic qigong, but I do know there has been lots of research about the health benefits of using powerful magnets.


I have a few magnetic products and I like them very much. Yogis use rudraksha to enhance meditation.



Rudraksha are seeds from a tree that have been considered sacred amongst yogis. Researches have shown that Rudraksha beads have certain powerful electromagnetic and accupressural property known as Piezoelectricity. A piezoelectric material when subjected to electric potential undergoes deformation in molecular level and develops a charge equal in potential but opposite in polarity. The heart pumps blood continuously and hence there is a constant bio electrical field developed around the heart. Rudraksha beads are worn around the heart and they instantly catch this electric potential and develop an electromagnetic potential of same intensity but opposite in polarity (positive or negative ). If the heart pumps faster electric potential of higher intensity is developed effecting a higher and opposite polarity of electromagnetic potential in Rudraksha beads. Thus Rudraksha beads instantly stabilize the blood circulation and brings it to normal level.

I posted this in another thread. I figured since rudraksha are benficial to aid in the flow of prana, then magnets might be as well. I own Alex Chui's magnetic rings and foot braces. I don't know if they will make you immortal, but damn they sure as hell energize the shit outta me while I sleep. I feel energized after wearing them all night during my sleep.

Although I believe his claims of immortality with the rings are bogus, the devices do seem to cultivate or circulate chi in some fashion. It seems to circulate energy around the body some how, but I scientifically cannot say that it has anti aging properties, or even that is increase or circulates chi, this is just based on experience with the devices and things like rudraksha.

For those that want to learn more about this, read The Body Electric by Rober Becker. This book depicts how an orthopedic surgeon uses magnetic fields to aid healing in patients after surgery.

I refuse to listen to teachers that don't have any real power to show for their efforts.

There are millions of crackpots out there, and none of them have any real power, but are eager to teach, so long as you are buying.

A friend of mine who is into wicca, and I argue frequently. I ask him: "Why do you trust the person who wrote this book to offer you valid teachings, if you haven't seen their power?" He just gets all red faced and flustered and can never answer logically.

He has a book collection worth $6000 or more of metaphysical stuff. I have watched him piss his life away chanting at the full moon, mixing herbs and potions, burring paper with words written on it in his own blood
(from his scrotum no less), lots of silly stupid shit. He believes he has more power than God, and can do anything, have any woman he wants, become richer than any man, fly, you name it. But when it comes down to it he still lives in his parents basement, and can never keep a woman. Amazing display of power, eh?

He has even written many tutorials on how to achieve power just like him, taken online students, you name it.
They are so amazed at his insights, and how "True", and "Authentic" his teachings are. I mean cmon you can just feel their validity oozing out right?

Oh wait! Best of all if you don't even have to meditate, or actually work to achieve this power. It is simply knowing the right herbs to mix, and words to chant, and time and location. No real effort involved... And wait as an added bonus limited time offer you can have all this for $19.95 plus S/H call now this offer will not last!


For every valid and true teaching out there there are 1 million which are bullshit, be careful who you trust.

Bindo, it's very difficult to read 'tone' in posts. (there was actually some proper research into this!!) I dont think Craig was being confrontational - and he does have a point.

I personally have a real dislike for that form of marketing - but often I must overlook the bs to get the gems. That kind of marketing is very ineffective for people who have an understanding of what is being marketed. for people just coming accorss this whole subject the marketing might draw them in, allowing the knowledge to be spread further out.

What do I think of his techniques? - well, I think there is something to it - using magnets. I will be ordering some very high quality magnets and trying them out before I'll be able to make an informed oppinion.

Caves, holes in the ground, special paramagnetic areas are all highly prized for cultivation purposes, so it makes some sense to stand on magnets.

I'll keep you all updated...

Your right there might be something to using magnets in cultivation, but you can pick up magnets even neodymium sphere magnets up off ebay for 1/100th the cost of that guys site.

Its just the red flags start flying off when someone has a website which is so commercial in nature. It is obvious they are a non-prophet organization, which is run 100% for profit.

Well this Ragnar dude is old and can bend a horseshoe! lol - also apparently animals have a real affinity to him... anyway I find reading about someone much more inferior to witnessing him live just for a minute or so.

here's more about him from the website



I was also concerned about the price of the magnets he sells - there is a set with a dvd and two foot sized magnets for standing on and the set is $150 - which is very expensive. but apparently if you call him up you can get just the dvd for about $35 which is reasonable. I also looked into magnets and discovered not all magnets are created equal - the ones he uses are not the ordinary industrial ones sold on ebay...

here's more on magnets to be used on the body: www.magnetlabs.com

Well you know maybe he is legit, I really don't know. But I think its odd he can spend all this time to build a website and business to sell air purifiers for $500 and UV lamps for $1000, and exercise shakers for $2999
and magnetic neodymium balls for $150 (they cost $5.00 on ebay), courses and books, and retreats, and all sorts of neat stuff, and live in a huge mansion, but yet he has no video's displaying his power, or abilities.

It's just I am a show me the money kinda guy, I have been ripped off and scammed, and manipulated, and lied to by countless "teachers" or more correctly "business men". I am a little jaded, to say the least, more like fed up to the F*#$ing gills with the BS.

I promise you guys if I ever wake up, my teachings will be free, and available to all. To me that is the hallmark of a true teacher, they don't care about money or pushing their ego, they simply want to help others, along the path. That and they have demonstrable power to back it up and are not afraid to demonstrate it to skeptical students.

Just fyi the highest grade neodymium magnetic is N50 currently. These grade magnetic spheres are available on ebay for $5.00 including shipping. Anyone who claims to have a higher grade or more powerful magnet than that is full of absolute BS, unless its cryogenically cooled to exhibit superconduction.

I practice magnetic qigong and like it . And have lessened to and read pretty much all peter has put out there. I dont think he has ever claimed anything that he or science can not prove. His info is worth looking at a little closer.
Trent

I would like to think that magnets have something going for them.

Its a little in-depth to get in to but try them under feet and on third eye negative north is the side you will want facing body. If you already practice qigong I dont think it will take more than a week or so to see that they work.
(There is a difference in grades of magnets)

I have N48 magnets:
2 pc - 1" balls
2 pc - 1.5" x 1/8" round discs
2 pc - 2" x 1/4" round discs
Maybe spent $50 total for them (ebay). Interesting to experiment. The biggest ones will bring a lot of heat the body if you stand on them for longer then 5 minutes. Personally, I think you don't need big magnets to get the benefit - just make sure the North points to your body when you stand on them or if you hold them.

Also, be careful when holding strong magnets - you can hurt yourself when they are too close to each other and get attached together.

Try to combine it with vibrating devices like Soloflex to enhance the experience. I bought just the vibration attachment and put it under a small wooden table I found in a dumpster with the legs half cut off.
M.

depending where you put them a high gauss but small magnet is good on the pineal gland (strong but only penetrates a little) bigger and thicker under the feet (usually not as high gauss but can penetrate for feet). really get the chi going I love them

oh? and what point would that be? seeing that I didn't express any opinion whatsoever about either guy, and Craig admitting that he inferred something that I didn't say and have never said. Please tell me.

You're right, tone can be difficult to read, which is why it's important to choose our words carefully when posting. The burden is on the one posting, not the reader.

My original post said; I read an article a few years back about how Peter Ragnar met Matt Furey and learned about internet marketing from him.

Please point out where one can pose an argument against my statement w/out making assumptions.

Thank You,
G

Bindo
What are you still holding on to.

Yep, I made an inference/assumption. My bad. But IME when someone posts a couple sentences the reader has to do their best to make links between one post and the next in order to intrepret what is being said.

You strenuously object to my taking the inference that you had a negative opinion. that is now very clear.

MWight.
Thanks for backing up your initial entry with more substantive objections.

PS - I never defended the guy. Don't know him. Just trying to ask for a fair hearing based on substance and not reaction to someones web-presentation. Seems like there is reason to see red flags here.

thats all. I'm out of here.

Craig

True. Peter has a testimonial on this Furey's page (scroll down).
Furey learned internet marketing from this guy -Ken McCarthy. One of the best and virtuous marketing guys I know.
I don't really want to change the subject but every time someone talks about Furey I think about what he did with Karl Gotch and his information. No virtue, no decency... You will look at the stuff he is selling last couple of years and you will see why.

What makes you think I'm holding on to anything? He addressed the first part of his post towards me, by name, so I responded. There was obviously a miscommunication between us and I not only apologized, but complimented you as well! But here you come again with, what seems to me, another smart mouthed response.

I took the high road by apologizing and complimenting you. You respond with a "my bad" and a "flame off"

Who's holding on here?