This is probably a Mantra or Dakini question but perhaps it was addressed at a seminar.

Today’s question to the dedicated Kunlun players. What level of practice are we aiming for?

In the book Max said that many of his students are happy with level 1 and it’s sensations of bliss. He also said that most of his students can not complete level 2 due to being impatient, but they eventually try again.

So I’m thinking an idealised timeline of minimum requirements for “Hardcore practice,” book only, no transmission.
=
everyday practice & for males EJ once per month maximum (after obtaining 100 days)


the time invested daily
=
Level 1 (6 mts) @ 1:20 hrs of practice
Level 2 (6 mts) @ eventually 2:20 hrs of practice (max 36 reps each side at ~1 min each? perhaps 2:20~2:40 total)
Level 3 (1 year) @ 3:30 hrs a practice

I believe that you must stay at the level 3 practice for Kunlun to “work”



What does everyone think, does this sound like what is required? Not that much really for an entire system, I guess. But if anyone can minimise the commitment I’m listening

Also are there any “get out’s” for limited time. i.e. while I practice kung fu everyday I can drop my practice down to ½ an hour if I’m away from home. It’s not a lot of fun, the body is all warmed up ready to play and I just put it away, but I can just cover my basics (sort of) The other way is to split it up over the day, but I don't think Kunlun lends itself to that solution.

With the lowered sleep requirements from Kunlun I think I could free up this sort of time block by getting up earlier as required. But an everyday commitment of this sort of time is logistically difficult over a 2 year period. Is a day off once a month o.k. once a week, every second day

Also any withdrawal symptoms to look out for and is just stoping cold turkey o.k. (you never know what might come up in the future)


Was trying not to start another thread, but the question is important enough to me to do so. I apologise for annoying the non-kunlun

Ontop of that important question I was personally wondering it stops at level 3? I thought there was more? That can't be the entire system?

Level one is all I have done and all you need as far as Kunlun goes because it clears the clouds and allows you to experience your true nature.

That is an infinitely vast and amazing experience once you actually open up to it.

It is simple, like learning to walk, but once you learn to walk you can go anywhere.

Very good questions here.

From what i have read on several spiritual paths there are many levels (72 crops up farely regular) which takes a lift time or more to reach the top. The kunlun guidelines seem to be 3 levels learned in 2 years(ish) for the rest of your life - is there no more? Seems a little condensed.

Also, does kunlun combine yin and yang similar to the way of lei shan dao (the mystic level 4)?

Shake your booty... that's pretty much it.

Mmmmm, what about Max's other students, how much do they have to practice? Seems like you are saying I only have do 1:20hrs of meditation now and then and can ignore the other stuff in the book ?!?!?!? like the 100 days, can we also do less than 1:20?

I like it, fits into my lifestyle easily, don't worry be happy but I remember once when Mantra wrote that he though he was being to easy on us and needed to get "hardcore." Well that's what I want, I don't want the "easy" or "PC" answer.

The reason I'm asking is it seem silly to start something when you think you might not have the capacity to finish it. It's easy enough to do level one, usually. Yesterday I went scuba diving and did not have the time to do all of the kung fu and tai chi that I wanted too let alone kunlun. Actually only did 20 active 20 closing just to keep my "practice string" going and only had time for that as I was home a few hours earlier than IU planed. Enough practice ...... I"m thinking that the 1 hour duration might be important, shorter sessions feel different. Would it have been better to just not bother and use that 40 min for doing other things (like looking after my partner who ended up getting heatstroke) and do the longer 1:20 sessions "regularly" rather than "religiously" I'm lazy too, so I'd like to take a day or two off now and then if it doesn't matter

Or should I be structuring my life to be more Monk like so that problems like diving trips don't come up

i.e. I'm learning kung fu. At the start it was enough to just enjoy it and learn how to defend myself. Now I want to learn the entire art. This takes 7 to 12 years of dedicated practice. My partner and I are staying in a town we both hate just so I can be with my Sifu. Since she is stuck here too she is doing more Uni, but will finish a year or 2 before me. We have plans on hold till I can train by myself and we can go back to Cairns. If Sifu decides not to teach for long enough (his children will be finishing university in the next few years and he would like to travel) The back up plan is to move to Brisbane so I can finish with Sigung. If it all turns out to be too difficult and I can't continue learning, my time isn't exactly wasted but I could have got a similar result with one year of dedication rather than 5.

Sigung tells a story about a friend of his that does Judo, but was only a white belt after years of learning and would not grade till he knew the techniques "perfectly". Sigung said it's good to want to do your art to the best of your abilities, but his friend never progressed in Judo as he never got to learn the higher belts skills that would help his white belt techniques approach perfection.

I don't think you have to be hung up on the hour time limit. Max has always told me to just practice till you feel like stopping. He said eventually you will be able to be done in 5 minutes. Max has said that you can practice when you are doing other things like walking or watching TV. He also mentioned to learn to live your practice so you are practicing at all times of the day even when you are talking to people. I think he is referring to the Red Phoenix practice when he said that.

I usually have two practice sessions. One in the morning when I wake up which goes for about a hour to a hour and a half. I practice the standing Maoshan 5 elements, Kunlun 1 and 2, and Red Phoenix. Then a short session before bed which usually goes about 20 to 30 minutes. I also practice while I am taking an evening walk. Craig

We are all so new to this, that it is so hard to plan out the strategy for the next few years or decades. It sounds like just do Kunlun as much as you are drawn to and go from there. If you want to go hardcore, then do more of it and maybe phase out your little herbal friend so you can Kunlun more often throughout the day. Personally, I'm doing Kunlun in a very easygoing way and I'm still making great progress so I haven't any appetite to be hardcore about it. It's a very luxurious situation.

Cheers Craig.

I find that for afternoons 20 active 20 closing "feels" right for me, probably because I'm doing kung fu and tai chi before hand. (and subconsciously I'm pressed for time)

When I switch back to first thing in the mornings how much active I want quickly cascades up.
Day 1/ 20 min
Day 2 / 40 min
Day 3 / one hour

Way back in October it would jump in 10 min intervals (I think because 10min was a good siting meditation for me then)

I do get a Kunlun feeling at times throughout the day, especially when I'm listening to music or playing it. But I often felt that way just wandering about "doing my thing" even before kunlun. I was already known as "the guy who smiles all the time" and people often ask me why am I so happy? So kunlun has not really changed that too much.

p.s. Don't tell me 5 min while watching TV I'm so lazy I would only want to do that

Mmmm sort of slowly happening by itself (at least in terms of quantity) which is pretty scary. Not being able to practice after also gives me an excuse not to get smashed as often. It's good to know that I'm still willing to forgo when required (like on new years, or today actually) and put other things first, shows I'm still not too addicted, which is good.

And Kunlun has very similar effects anyhow, even down to slight pain relief. Would need Red Phoenix (I think) to get away from daily use totally (I enjoy the weird trippy sh!t )

Just don't want to cruse along and find out just a bit more effort would have given better results. I must guard against my tendency towards laziness.

Later edit.

Isn't it funny how you will ask a question and expect to hear the answer you already think is correct. Obviously I am wanting something that will make things harder.

My mind is telling me it can't be that simple


Felt really hungry during kung fu practice, so I didn't practice today, went to get a kebab instead. Decided to let go of the superiority complex that I get from everyday practice. On the way home the rain stopped and I saw a full rainbow. A rare sight. And one end was over my house

Basically I'm just going to get up and meditate in the morning, and if for whatever reason that doesn't happen ......................well tomorrow is another day.

Final edit.

Well I tried not to practice. But I was outside on my bench in the light rain with my cat. And there was nothing else I wanted to do. And I felt content and full after my kebab. And everything was so nice. And Deanne called in sick to work and is asleep now. And I didn't feel like my herbal friend yet (lol is that like mothers little helper ? ) And Kunlun is fun so.......

But it doesn't count because I didn't use my sheepskin in the rain, and it was only 20/20, no matter how enjoyable it was to laugh like a fool in the rain, no matter about the weird visual phenomina.

Doesn't count, not real practice, not hard enough

I have been reluctant to post this due to all the shit flying about in regards to KunLun and didn't want to add fuel to the fire but here we go.
After doing Kunlun for a couple of weeks I had a very vivid dream.I won't bore everyone with the details but it involved a run down house a very strong female prescence and Max saying to mean "You have to change your name."
In the dream this seriously rubbed me up the wrong way.End of dream.

Since then I have attempted to practise Kunlun but it no longer has the same impact infact if anything it seems to drain me of energy,so I had to let it go.

Perhaps another day I will be willing to change my name

Mal,

Sounds like you're setting yourself up for some self-sabotage. I often do this - you set up unreasonable demands on yourself and often unreasonable expectations of what the result will be. the expectations and demands are linked - you tell yourself you wont get the results if you don't fulfill your demands - it's just setting yourself up for failure.

My best estimation of how/why this happens in me is that my mind grasps for control. Only the mind needs rules, only the mind has expectations - both are illusory, they are both in place to make it seem like you're in control. If it so happens that you do stick to the demands and you do get the expected results, then the mind has a little glory to grasp on to, even though it played a very minor role in your success. The more likely scenario is not being able to stick to the demands and not getting the results - in this case the mind has a very concrete story of why it didn't work - in this way it re-asserts its illusory control.

More and more I'm letting go, and when i feel connected to my core, my belly, It becomes so natural to just follow my intuition - this is not necessarily easy or 'chilled' - often intuition pushes me to a place that is extremely 'uncomfortable' for who i perceive myself to be. Intuition is like the antidote to the poison of mental control... the only irony is that most of us see intuition as the worst of poisons and mental control as the universal medicine...

When I feel 'connected', the mental grasping doesn't stop - but its importance is neutralised - I can impose demands and expectations in my head, then I tend to just let it go and follow the deeper wisdom in my belly.

Seadog, I dont know you, obviously, so I cant target any feedback on this to you personally. But I can say this - the psyche throws out sabotage in many forms.
If you have any lurking fears that you are vulnerable to a cult, or that kunlun is cult like, and/or that your ego identity feels threatened by the changes that kunlun can bring to you, it may well dig in it's heels and try hard to make you reinforce the current status quo and show change to you in a threatening light, so that you avoid it.

Only you will know if you are being spooked by your unconscious into giving up something important, or if it something else going on.

Love and Peace.

Seadog,

You have to follow your heart on these things!

Your pal,
Yoda

respect for the descision. even though, since you present the dream in this forum, i think maybe you would like a response on the symbols? i do understand that just parts of your dream have been exposed...
old house is you and your body, and its ancient memory (dna, heritage)...max: the teacher, a male together with a female voice, expresses your inner feelings of whats working in the world..and clearly states that you will have to change your name, Your name summarises yourself. It is like a focal point around which your sense of self collects. So changing your name would suggest a change in the way you see yourself, or express yourself...and since a female spoke the change may be about feelings.or irrational parts of you..parts not yet integrated..how you perceive yourself emotionally..
well...this to me this sounds like a dream about what drew talks about intellectually (female formless awareness) and how max represents himself practically...with his female teachers, the heart.feel..bliss..
personally i think it is good to take the time to feel what EXACTLY put you off. i think your dream was instructional. do consider wther it was night or day, chilly or warm and whether the roof of your house was in place, if you were in the basement or a loft..

i am not advocating anything here. dream on.
way to go!
hug

Totally not applying this interpretation towards Seadog, but speaking of dreaming about old houses... that's a real theme for me. Actually Kunlun has brought up dreaming of yucky, spooky, dark, sickly, out-of-square, I-bet-there-are-moisture-problems old houses several times. In my case, often if I have a joyful, breakthrough type of experience like the first time I had sex for instance it would be followed by having a "This Old House" dream. I didn't care for them at first, but then I realized that in my case these dreams are part of a releasing process, meaning that I'm just getting used to being in greater levels of joy.

In Kunlun, I can experience a strong sense of joy that can last the entire Kunlun session which is distinct from any other experience of joy that I can conjure up through other means.

The old house dream is a common one for me too. Most recently: Being drawn by a light to an area of the house that’s not often used, then shown (by a trusted family member) a huge hole in floor that reveals layers of older to ancient flooring beneath.

justme

Can't say ive had the 'old house' dream but ive had alot of dreams going back over moments in my life that have been good and bad. They seem fall into three groups extreme good, extreme bad or times when i felt i should have done something different.

When i get the third type its not a bad feeling but analytical eg. why i done it at the time and how i could have done better. Could this be a mental clear out like the physical burn up?

huh...mine are always in another time, another place...even if I 'know' its somewhere I have been before, the scenery is entirely different.

Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate the insights.
Rain & Cat it was like you were sitting next to me.
Indeed Kunlun is a deep yin practise.
Whats in a name?

Hi Freeform,

Yes, I do like to self sabotage, thanks for trying to help me.

I found your thread on Goals referring to Slavinski book 'Return to oneness' very helpful,
( as well as this goggle hit http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=1786 )
I especially liked the idea of integrating the polarities of your goal into one. I’ve added the book to my wish list, but I'm trying to limit myself to buying 2 books a fortnight.

My mind is having problems with a practice that is fun and enjoyable. From my background I “expect” things to be difficult and to need to make myself practice, rather than just enjoying it. So my mind is sort of saying "where is the challenge and hard work?"



Nice 1. I’m at least noticing now that when I go against my feelings things don’t turn out so well. Just have to work on following my feelings in the first place rather than ignoring them

Seadog,
Intresting dream for sure I was told going with your own feeling was the right way to go when interpreting dreams. But I really liked Cats and Rains interpretations. And at least with some people stoping Kunlun, it allays my own "cult" worries

Yeah you really seem to be getting alot out kunlun Mal.I wish you the best of luck.
You strike me as a really sincere person (perhaps strike is not quite the right word) a quality that is most admirable indeed.