Hi All.

I apologize if this has been posted or debated before, I did search before posting.
I stumbled across this clip today which I had not seen before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

Its an apparent KIAI Master.
This master claimed to have never been beaten in over 200 fights in Vale Tudo.

There is small montage of clips at the start of the video of him in training, apparently knocking down multiple opponents with his Chi powers.

He put up $5000 dollars as a challenge that he could apparently beat any MMA fighter.

I will let you watch the result!

What do you make of this?

So why are all his students dropping to the floor at his sweeping arm gestures???

Is it a form of conformity?
Is it acting?
Is it a case of "if you believe in it enough, it affects you" ?
Or is this clip a complete fast?

I believe in Chi, and I trust a lot of footage of various masters on the internet, but when I see examples like this, where scores of trainees are literally bouncing of an old master, I find it very hard to believe...

Unless witnessed personally, you have to go on your own judgment...

This guy looked shocked when he was hit the first time, then he went down like a sack of bricks.

Has his whole life of martial practice been in vein?

I never get tired of these.

Just priceless.

Kiai (chi) has its place and that's for health benefits. outside of this in terns of zapping people. its not so great!

We should get a forum dedicated to Jedi dreamers. So when they come here claiming levitation, and lightning bolts from their fingers we could politely direct them to the forum.

Maybe it will save them thousands of dollars and years of wasted time and effort.

I just dont see how this guy has managed to delude himself for so many years.
Maybe his students fear him so much, they fall because they think they should, which in turn gives the master more confidence.

Its funny to see an MMA fighter go straight up to him and punch him in the face!
This master has probably not been touched for years!

I think the video speaks for itself. I avoided posting it because it's just sad.

Qi is real but is scientific, not hocus pocus. i applaud John Chang to having submitted to demonstrations to be openly views. Harvard is currently conducting research on Buddhist monks who dry a series of wet towels through heating their bodies in meditation.

There are a LOT of people who can whoop most MMA fighters. Most of the guys on UFC, WEC, etc are not very. Honestly, in two years most beginners can get that good just by taking Muay Thai and BJJ. Some of the more experienced fighters are very good in MMA, but there are a lot of CMA folks who are better and just not interested in that scene.

i should also note that some of the most interesting TUF Seasons 1 and 2 guys DID practice internal methods, Iron Palm, Meditation, Elements Meditation, Yoga, etc. They did not seem like they would be able to fight to the macho guys, but they tore them all up.

Qi is just energy. Energy is seamless throughout the Universe. There is no scientific debate about this. There are ultimately just different forms of energy and how it is expressed.

When people doubt "Qi" they are doubting - usually - people's ability to master it. There is no scientific debate ABOUT the EXISTENCE of Qi (Breath and Energy literally). Do you have energy? Of course. Do you have breath? Of course. Debate is over. The word means nothing else.

Mastering it is another topic. As i said, there is at least one study i know of currently at Harvard:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

come on guys, this kiai master just did not practice hard enough.

the real secret is, you have to do 8 pieces of brocade for 6 hours a day for a week,
then you have to do spring forest gong for the same time
then you have to do dragon and tiger and god's playing in the clouds for the same amount of time
then you have to iron shirt chi gung for 3 days, followed by cloud hands
then you do a tai chi long form and make it last 8 hours
then you have to walk the circle 99 times in one direction and 99 times in the other direction on the full moon either during summer or winter solstice, (don't forget all your pearls and the grain path either)

then you just hold san ti until you can do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MPTvee1Ww4

don't even bother opening a school or making videos or challenging anything until you can do that

the young man is quite cute

I've posted that video here before - I love it. It's an excellent demonstration of the role of psychology in these magic power demonstrations. They always look the same. It's very easy to spot when you've seen a few.
Here is another good one - you must watch the whole thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa1nzD-n25Q...feature=related

How about these videos? Are they real or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9QHxMfYGEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Lfy8LPsVM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmEOR6a68OE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i096Zq2RQT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV7XVoKp1OQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONtdMxSk5ws

Hi Jane,
I'm not quite as cute but I can do that. You just can't see or feel it.

Ok, so I think every one is in agreement.
We are all well aware of Chi/Qi and its use.

This so called 'Master' had obviously deluded himself over the years.
He probably believed that he really was a master - until the reality check hit home.

(And lets face it, that was an easy win too!)

But what about his students in the video???
There is another clip here of him in training:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tib2Urowsdc

What are these students doing reacting to his movements??
Do you think they think they really feel something??

It must be part of the psychology, they are conforming?

It's a form of hypnosis...

ever clapped because everyone else is clapping? it's kind of like that.

What happens is this guy has a bit of chi (everything does) - it's just over the years he's trained his students to react to that chi in a certain way (lose strength, fall over etc)... The students invest a lot of time and money, so for them it pays to follow the master's lead... it's just sad to see him deluding himself that he is doing anything more than "bowing so that the students clap"... it's kind of a little spectacle that feeds his own and his students' egos - it's just he forgot it's a spectacle...

I do believe that there are masters who can develop true skill - maybe not throwing people without touching them, but certainly skills that are difficult to explain using standard western methods. The confusing thing is that there is an aspect of hypnosis to this 'real' skill too...

When a BJJ teacher demos an armbar on his student - does he resist or play along?

Most just play along because resisting would seem rude and possibly a challenge to the teacher's authority. Which is not to say the armbar would absolutely not work, either. Just that it may not work as well (or much at all) against a resisting opponent in real life.

Anyways, at least this guy put his money where his mouth is. But, how he became so overconfident in his abilities is a mystery to me... Seems like he should have gotten reality-checked welll before this?

It's almost like a super extreme version of Aikido. Where people go down even before they are touched. In Aikido, you offer little or no resistence to your opponent. Some people might think this is a better way to train but alot of martial artistis just think it's bs and doesn't let you train under resistence.

As much as I like aikido at some point I tend to agree, if you want to train martial arts you need a resisiting partner atleast once in awhile to see if your techniqe actually works.

I mean, it might work on his students but do you think if any of these guys got attacked on the street there attacker would fall down from them raising there hand in the air? I doubt it.

I do however, think there is something to this from studying Kunlun and meeting Max and his students. But the way they use it is more for healing and sending out bliss energy. Like Max will somehow magnetically tie his students to the earth or a tree or fence or whatever. No idea how it works and I wouldn't try it in a self defense situation but his students seem to be experiencing something very real.

Yea, I have a hunch that energy transmission can be easily blocked or stopped.

One time, I was getting some qi from a healer and inhaled up into my chest (instead of down towards my belly). She got a startled look as the qi seemed to get stopped and "back up" into her. So, I think I inadvertantly blocked her transmission simply with my breathing.

And with Kunlun, I am always in full control at any time and could stop any of the kriyas, etc. - if I wanted to. Of course, I don't and just flow with them because they are therapeutic, so why would I?


But OTOH...I also got 1" soft-punched and knocked off my feet once. This was basically a "pure qi" punch (no real body mechanics involved) and I'm not sure I could have blocked the qi blast. And I was not playing along, either.


So, it may be that someone can inflate themselves with qi and have great "peng" energy. Which would make their punches much harder and structure much stronger. However, this does not involve actually transmitting energy to another person.

Which is a different animal and can probably be fairly easily blocked by that person.

I dunno, just a guess..

I don't know a thing about martial arts, but in Western astrology there are four elements--earth, air, fire and water. From what I can tell, using chi to fight is attacking on the water and air levels. A person who had a lot of water and air planets in their chart would be susceptible, but a person who was mostly fire or earth would not.

For example, I am Pisces rising, a water sign, which means I interact with the world on a water level. I am VERY easily hypnotized. I am so easily hypnotized I go under during movies with hypnosis scenes. For someone like me, having an opponent with these powers would be formidable indeed. Fortunately I also have a lot of earth underneath, so I have a balance. I think it quite likely that students who had a lot of water energy would be attracted to such a master, and of course it would be a very earthy fiery person who would be attracted by the thought of challenging a chi master like that.

I can't even comment on the lightning one. The others were all cooperation. Interestingly enough the last one was of Shi Ming. I know the long haired American guy. He confirmed my suspicions.

I have to say I'm a little surprised at some here. I was thinking that the people that came here were serious investigators of Dao and the like. This stuff is Dragonball-Z

Shi Ming was a real fighter even he had such Qi emission powers. He was undefeated at least that was his reputation, and he could prove the violence of the fights in which he had been involved by the missing teeth from his mouth. My teacher was a student of Shi Ming more than fifteen years ago. He said that all these demonstrations works only on their pupils and Shi Ming himself was very conscious about that, BUT when my teacher was a beginner student of Shi Ming asked him to perform such Qi transmission on him without cooperation. He had in mind to resist his teacher with all his power but when Shi Ming discharged an amount of Qi in him, he felt like a claw gripped his heart. So, he become a believer, but yes such demonstration are a little bit exaggerated but does not mean that they're not real at all.

I am an Aquarius, also a water sign. It's is impossible to hypnotize me. Partly because I am continuously aware on several levels. In fact on occasion people trying to hypnotize me, hypnotized themselves in the process.

The way to use chi in a fight is not to stand there and Force push people ineffectively until they bridge the gap and pop you in the face. You use intent to mobilize the chi which may or may not be moving the blood and flowing in the nerves, the nadi and various meridians. If you do it right when you physically contact [i]someone with your body while you are initiating rapid open and closings in your hips legs and spine and coiling, they may be in for a little surprise.

As for being easily hypnotized. There is a way to fix that, it just takes time and hard work.

There are 3 things I recommend.

The first involved basically doing Opening the Energy Gates while standing or sitting. Dissolve down your central channel

The second thing is San Ti. Stand and use your continuous awareness to forge a path of complete presence from your feet, to your hand, to across the room

The third thing is mirror training.

Use a mirror and stare into your own eyes without spacing out. Beat yourself in a staring contest.

You want to get rid of gaps in your attention. You will gap and space out. Just keep doing it.

In fact you could sit and dissolve, then do san ti, then after you are all charged up from san ti, do the same intention movements while staring into a mirror. Use the mirror as if you were staring into the eyes of opponent and watch yourself critically and honestly for gapping and spacing out.

Gapping and spacing out not only makes it easier to trance or fall into hypnotic states, it makes it easy for someone with good timing to literally hit you while you are not paying attention. That gap in attention, that distraction or spacing out can happen over a couple of seconds or in a millisecond which is what happens when people in cars run over people walking in the cross walk on the walk signal. I saw this last week walking down California St here in SF

middle aged woman at a dead stop with a passenger in the car. An elderly woman is slowly walking through the intersection.

the woman in the car, and I was watching her the entire time. Looked left, directly at the old woman, then looked right, and then turned left and I could see her mouth moving as she was chatting, as she looked right and turned left.

She hit the old women, square on the front of her bumper, while the old woman was nearly half way through the marked crosswalk with legal right of way.

The woman in the car was not even driving. She was on autopilot. She was so busy in her head with her conversations and what not, she did not see the woman in the cross walk at all. Like a ba gua ghost appearing out of no where, the old woman was suddenly THERE in the crosswalk. The woman in the car had an expression of total shock and surprise, That actually made me angry when I saw her face as I raced over to the old woman sprawled in the crosswalk. The woman in the car was driving an automobile in a dense urban area. She was not paying attention to the fact that was in a car and there were people all around her.

The woman in the car could have used 100s of hours of video game training to deal with the spacial distractions of such multitasking. The point is. She was utterly unaware of the slowly moving old woman and plowed right over her. From a dead stop. Complete gapping in attention. That's how a lot of accidents happen. You can focus completely on only so many things until you start not paying full attention to some of those things and you mess up.

I digress, to trance out or be hypnotized, you have to be doing the reverse of paying complete attention with total presence and alertness. You have to be gapping. I can't see how that has any healing, meditative or martial value at all. In fact removing gaps in your attention will help you feel your energy blocks and those in others better. It will help you remain still and centered better, and it will help you dominate in push hands when you fa jin people after listening to them and waiting patiently for them to gap out for you. It will definitely help you to NOT run over people in the middle of the road while you are looking at them, without actually seeing them, because you are elsewhere. removing your gaps in your awareness and presence will make it all but impossible to trance out or by hypnotized by anything or anyone ever again.

Now if you get to the taoist alchemy part where you are literally drawing different kinds of energy into your overall chi matrix as it were you can control whether or not you are an earth person, a water person, a fire person or whatever. You can utterly decide what your energy qualities will be and make them that way.

When you take over every aspect of your chi and mind. When you try to actualize the 8 energy bodies described in BKF Water Method teachings, you will not be the sum of a random astrological roll of the die.

I noticed that for 20 years of my life, astrological stuff seemed to have a certain projective accuracy about my abilities and traits and destiny. In other words, my horoscope seemed somewhat accurate most of the time. This was reflected in the Tarot as well.

After I started practicing alchemy, my horoscope and astrological traits were practically meaningless and had no bearing on me, my life or my reality. Once I took control over my own energy interactions, I effectively took myself off the astrology table and started writing my own horoscope as I acquired traits and abilities and behaviors that none of my charts indicated was standard for my sign. All my readings have been inaccurate or nonsensical since I took up taoist meditation.

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but what about when you're channeling "in trance?" When your local conscious mind takes a backseat to whatever you're channeling.

Your awareness is not really "gapped," but it's not really just "your" own localized awareness anymore either. In fact, your local consciousness is sort of subdued in a "trance."

Well, I am a witch, and as a witch frequently go into trances. I do not do regular taoist practices. I am surprised that taoist alchemy would disconnect a person from astrological influences; usually with alchemical practice it is the opposite.

I do not consider being easily hypnotized a bad thing. I am also able to easily hypnotize myself, which actually does have some beneficial health effects, when used properly. Then again, I'm not a martial artist so I don't have to worry about vulnerability during fights.

By the way, Aquarius is an air sign, and almost no one gains any benefit from sun sign astrology. Astrology is based on all the planets, not just one.

In my personal opinion, trancing is gapping and both channeling and trancing are antithetical to actualizing the 8 energy bodies and becoming completely alive and present at all time on all levels.

It really requires a topic of it's own, perhaps we could start a topic just to discuss this.







You are right, it is an air sign, it's been years since I concerned myself with astrology, I beg forgiveness, you are right and I am wrong. Aquarius is the water bearer and I confused the two.

I am former witch. In fact at one time I was involved in pagan activism and a member of WARD Witches Against Religious Discrimination.

I spent some number of years intensely involved with witchcraft and had my own coven in my very early 20s.

I moved on. What I wanted out of witchcraft was power, knowledge, wisdom and a close connection to the earth, the elements and the entire universe. practicing The Craft greatly helped me become sensitive to the elements especially water and the tides, the weather and the moon.

In the end I had to make a decision as to what and how I wanted to practice. Most people I knew had neither the time or inclination to practice ritual magick in a systematic, disciplined fashion on a daily basis. Preferring instead to practice the occult mainly during Sabbats. For me, every day was witchcraft day, I dispensed with the ritual and burned my Book of Shadows and instead practiced core energy arts like spiraling chi from the ground or the sky into my body and energy system. I cut out the words, the spells, the ceremony, the polytheism and just focused on the energy of spirit to the exclusion of anything else. Eventually the energy work becomes so absorbing that you can only sit while your mind stream joins with both your inner and outer universe.


Let me make another thread about this topic so as not to keep this one off topic.

I would say trance is a pretty dagerous thing unless you really really know what you connect to. Some people do know, but most dont. We have guys like Edgar Cayce, JK Knight(or something like that), that are able to keep it real. But all the reiki-new-age-people all around the world channeling every master they see a picture of are really only harming themselves and their listeners.

Ive seen many channelers and what they connect to is definetly not jesus(or sananda as he is popularly called in channeling communities), Melchizedek, Sanat Kumara, Metatron, etc. It is someone else that is avaiable in other realms. Could be anyone, but because the channel is in trance he wouldnt know. Too often will channeling sessions leave people spaced out, feeling all warm and full of love, but with no grounding in reality. And then whats the point of felling love if not for fulfilling your own egos needs?

Notice especially how so many channelings start with things like "greeting beings of light", "you are the chosen ones", etc. It adresses the ego. Peoples aura and energysystems are blasted after channeling sessions. They are not expanded into the "unlimited universe of love", it is destroyed and left open like a wound for anyone in any realm to poke on. They are not awakened and ascended masters of love, they are pushed into a corner leaving themselves open to be manipulated by anyone.

But the ability to let go is ofcourse important, but you dont need trance-states to practice that. The trance-state in itself has not much to offer us.

repost this in the thread about it please. I like your post and your thoughts, lets talk about channeling, trance, possession, all that good stuff, in a thread dedicated to it. You have some good insights.

First Rule of Wizardry:

"People will believe any lie. Either because they really want to or because they are afraid it is true."

Yes thats what i think also. I doubt alot of people will be able to use there body energy to "deflect" attackers from a meter away, maybe the oversensitive student yes ..

Im convinced it is real that you can attack someone's organs (or a specific one) with energy wich is way more dangerous, i think it takes a long time to develop this.

Another possible use of subtle energy is to project emotions onto your opponent wich may confuse him.

There is no bull in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heAa9nVKq1I

76 years old and still going strong.

Wang Bo from Shanghai performing Yang, Chen style Taijquan and Songxi Pai Internal Boxing of Siming.

Funny all that Chen leg stamping.


This is a classic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USJPmCZ6Efc...feature=related

and this one shows the applications of his simplified Yang style:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4603FB2mh4...feature=related

Chen Man Ching

Masutatsu Oyama - Videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FteS-NxwXsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MapyZq4YIo...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my2WwUzNZJc...feature=related

(the music of the last one is the best- just kidding)

Masutatsu Oyama - story

http://www.masutatsuoyama.com/masoyama.htm

i think mas oyama offered a lot of many for anyone who could beat him. also he accepted a hell lot of challengers. interesting story. worth reading.

SOME CLIPS ALREADY SEND HERE ARE REALLY COOL. THANKS!!!

Love Jan.

This is a good active Forum.
I like it.

I only wish I could generate this kind of traffic to my own forum (Thinkers Corner Small plug there ;-)

Ill go over the other videos posted later - cant be bothered to do much work today!
Hangover on a Friday = limited work.

I have another good clip thats along the same sort of lines.
A master who zapps his students, who fly off him, and bounce up and down while the energy is running through them - Its ridiculous.

Gareth - it seems ridiculous, but there is something actually going on here... the students are in a receptive state and when the master passes energy they react in that way... it's 'real' - in that there is a real deep-level connection between master and student - it's nothing more 'far out' than if regular, professional dance partners managed to perfectly dance completely new steps with only the lead knowing the steps - it's not acting and pretending, but it's also not Dragonball Z type stuff (using Buddy's terminology)...

Yeah, this is video is just sad to me, the guy's life is probably ruined, it seemed like he really believed he would be able to do this on anyone.

I used to this kind of thing, couple of years back. I moved people without touching and people moved me. Tried a knock out without touching a couple times. Fun stuff. It's what attracted me to Ryu Kyu Kempo, the work with energies. My club is member of DKI, which I imagine Buddy knows haha...
Anyway, at the time I thought I was using energy to do all these things. But now I doubt it. It's more likely it was simply a form of hypnosis or something. That said, I still believe this could be done with energy, it just would take a lot of training.

A better view:

bloody

I met an old Mongolian man once that could demonstrate a very cool skill - I was a kid, and I'm not sure if he was a martial artist or not (I think he did wrestling at least) - he was traveling around with a soviet boxing team, he was the healer giving massages, healing bruises for the boxers and stuff...

The best way to describe it is that he could, at will, project a real 'intenseness' and the body would just reflexively get out of the way - it's like he would trigger a flight reflex... he demonstrated it on several martial artists, and on me too... he would stand there and ask me to step towards him - so I would step closer and suddenly this intense fear would take over and I had to step back... with the adults he actually stepped towards them and it seemed to have a very strong and obvious effect - they would try and hold it together, and eventually cave in and jump out the way (one proud guy was resisting a lot, you could see afterwards he was red and sweaty, and was in nervous fits of laughter)

This guy was very cool - as a kid, I remember I was really curious about him, he had a real gentleness to him...

I've posted this a couple of times before, but I'll mention it again. I studied with a Tzu Jan Men teacher (natural systems) for several years. I never knew he had "chi" powers, he never mentioned them or demonstrated. One day during class, he rolled up his sleeve and said "grab my arm". I tried, but I never got my hands closer than 6 inches from his arm. Instead, I went flying across the room, landed on the floor, screaming and holding my belly. He never touched me. However, I am pretty sure he trained for decades to get that level of skill. He also mentioned a time when his most advanced student was attacking him so quickly during practice that he had no chance to respond with a physical level defense. He did some kind of chi defense, and the top of the student's forearm sort of exploded, he said it looked like someone had taken a hypodermic needle and stabbed the buy all over his forearm, and blood flew all over.

There is some weird stuff in Chinese martial arts. There are probably more fakers than actual people with these skills, but there are at least a few systems that teach these kinds of abilities.

I won't even try to speculate as to what is happening in the video where numerous students are flailing and falling every which way. I call that amusing.

Take two people are revving up their chi doing whatever, tai chi, standing, walking the circle.

They are both reasonably sensitive to chi and after they are warmed up they stand opposite each other holding one or both hand up inches from each other. They feel the pressure and start taking one step back each until they can just barely feel it. Depending on how yang they were, maybe 5 feet, maybe even ten.

Then they take turns just sending more intent into one hand while breathing and you basically send a pulse to the other person. Very very subtle. If that person allows themselves to give way to the other person's pulse in a proportionate reaction. Like turning the hip in push hands. Then the person receiving the pulse can sway a tiny bit back.

Then that person does it back, sending a pulse to the other person who responds, only when she actually feels the pulse, without anticipation and reacts only as much as was felt. That person sways back a tiny but noticeable amount.

Then they play with it slowly pulling and pushing each other via chi projection from the hand. They can try closings and absorbing and see if the other person feels a pulling breeze instead of a pushing breeze.

Aside from the healing aspect of it, it is a great sensitivity exercise but that is about it.

You can stand five feet apart and get really intense and push on each other's hands with your chi in a scene reminiscent of Obi wan and Anakin force pushing on each other in the control room at the end of SW3

But no matter how much you push or for how long, you will never blast the other person off their feet.

I say this because, out of curiosity or should I say, out of obsessive need I have tested it. When I say tested it, I mean I have spent hundreds of hours trying to move anything by continuous projection or pulse projection or drawing it to myself using draining and closing.

I have tried to open doors, lift and flip cars. The whole putting out candles with chi was not impressive to me. People's bodies are not candle flames. Much much more force would have to be trained to move people with chi. I have spent hours projecting my hand around my room, in the back yard trying to move things with chi.
When both arms got too tired to extend anymore, I stood and just used my central channel and projected from my head. I would practice until my mind was literally tired and could not focus. I practiced to the point that my body was physically hungry from the amount of work I spent standing still and just trying to increase my chi projection.

I have practiced this for so many hours that I have never met someone that could project from their own hand as long as I can without becoming weak or unfocused first. I have worn out partner after partner trying to get them to move me and me to move them.

That example I used of Anakin and Obi wan facing off extending chi from their hands at each other. I have done that until my partner could not hold his or her hand up for another second.

It never ever works on matter. It just does not. Not once have I pushed someone away with it.


The only time you move someone is when they allow you to. I would never ever rely on it in situation because thus far it can not be used for anything practical.

Like I said, I was after much more than gently knocking someone backward or moving a pencil around on a table. I wanted enough juice that if a car came careening onto the sidewalk towards me I could extend my hand and instantly move the car out of my way.

In hundreds and hundreds of hours practicing, it just does not work. I practiced long past the point when any other person would have seen the light and given it up. In fact most everyone that has ever done that with me has said that while yes, there is a definite tangible sense of energy there, relatively speaking, it has no real power. No more than the warmth of the sun or a tiny breeze. Certainly nothing strong enough to injure someone in the slightest in any kind of martial engagement cooperative or not.

In fact I once asked BKF what would happen if I focused exclusively on that one task. If I tried for 14 hours a day to keep projecting out of my hand, if sooner or later I would be able to move something anything at all. I told him back in 1997 at a retreat, that I had been practicing this since I was about 7 years old. He bid me to try. At the time, it was dinner. The closest thing to my hand about 2 feet away happened to be a salt shaker on a picnic table. I focused about 300% of my energy on it instantly and tried to suck it towards me or push it away or lift it up. It would not happen. I was hardly embarrassed because it was failure to move an object # 857729929

I told him that from what I understood of the mind and nei/chi gung. If I kept at it, dedicated ultra seriously, than sooner or later my brain would forge a circuit for it. I said it must be only a matter of time and patience and repetition.

BKF said to me "then what? Assuming you eventually become what you are practicing, what have you got? You have become the 800 pound psychic gorilla. What then? What is the purpose? How has that freed your spirit in anyway? What would you do with it?"

I said something to the effect of "If I get to 800 lbs it means I can get to 1600 or more."

Then he said to me, if my mind and my ego and my spirit was not ready I could destroy myself or others
It sounded like he acknowledged the possibility so I dug a little deeper and asked.

"Have you ever met anyone that could do what I am trying to do with chi gung?"

He said yes. Somewhere in a remote area of rural China there is a man that can do those things and he is completely insane. He spends all day in solitude and isolation away from all people. He stays drunk morning noon and night.

He told me I might succeed and then what? "Once you turn it on, you may not be able to turn it off again."

So I moved on.

This one was sent to me by Alan some time ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUiPCbz5nGM

I think the background story in japanese is that the game they are playing is to have 4 local celebrities, and the last one who laughs is out. So they make them see some funny stuff, and so we get to see the funny stuff too, which are of course all those 'chi demonstartion'... And I will not tell you more not to spoil you the fun.

Loved the lightning bold from the previous post.

Also I heard this story (could get the details if someone is interested, again from Alan, but I don't think there is a youtube movie for that) where someone claimed he was able to throw off people with his chi. And someone accepted the challenge. So another person went there with a glass of water. And they faced each other, and the chi master did all his stuff, and all the hii, haa, huu, and the other guy simply moved slowly saying: it's coming, it's coming. And then very simply poured the whole glass on the head of this poor self deluded chap.

free-
What's happening is cooperation. And the end result is the aforementioned video. I don't believe it for a moment (shock) but even it were real, what's the point of learning something that only works on the willing?

Here's Derren Brown doing the same thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcqNsihA-Yo

The one inch thing I can do zero distance with most parts of my body. It's just fajin.

You picked the wrong thing to move! You have to pick something with a water affinity, which requires consciousness. Water doesn't work on earth, it works on water.

There's a common thing that responds very well to that sort of thing. *sigh* I'll show you levitation! I love men so much.

Another Terry Goodkind fan
/wave

Interesting. Maybe he knew how to project emotions (which in general are "contagious"), or just developed such a strong intent.



It's not cooperation. I doubt that DB told the guy in private, "hey, just cooperate and pretend to be punched in the stomach", this would be cooperation for me. Or I have I different idea of cooperation in my mind than you.
But what is the point if it works only on the willing is a good question... Well, it can be fun.

Anyway, here's another interesting video from DB:



Anyone know how to explain this? Freeform?

(edit: finally found how to embed )

I would accept the staring challenge. Right now. No problem. I was only worred that you could not even blink your eyes as he says, but he did rapidly the eyes, at some point. Blinking the eyes rapidly every now and then is necessary to keep them moist. But if you are allowed to do that, you are centered and you know how to shield yourself you can basically remain for a looong time.

You're right, what Derren is doing isn't. The others were. Derren's a very impressive trickster. Here he explains what he does (but not how).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInA3N-M3gQ&feature=user

I would as well. Xingyi gazing practice gave me that ability. Intense, though.

Yeah, but how do you guys know that you wouldn't react the same way the people in the video did?


What is the purpose of Xingyi gazing practice?

BTW Buddy, it comes as a shock to me that you're such a sceptic when your own daughter talks to fish.





Actually, from reading a bit about him online, he's not really using that much NLP. He's a mentalist. So basically it seems he is using NLP, but in fact it's just a trick. NLP is mostly a cover up. Or so I read.

yeah - he does a covert induction (puting someone in a hypnotic state) - it starts from the moment when he tells the person to 'come and stand here' - they do - they're already following his lead. With the guy with the hat - he does something with his hand - it's called a pattern interrupt - look at it closely - he waves his hand up and down gently untill it stays in the air... how he gets them to feel ill, i dont know - I suspect he just leaves out a bit in the film where he explains what's going on to the crowd and gives subtle suggestions ("don't allow your eyes to sting" - "I would stare in the mirror untill I would feel ill in the stomach") - something along those lines...

Here is an influence trick you can all learn to do: practice breathing exactly like someone else - you do need a lot of practice, but if you decide to do it, you can do this: on public transport, waiting in a queue, on the plane, wherever - use the periphery of your vision and start copying the breathing pattern of your target - by breathing pattern I mean the tempo, the depth, the area in the lungs breathed into etc. when you're completely in rhythm, just hold your breath - and watch the surprise on the target's face as they hold their breath not knowing why...

breathing is just one level - heart rate, pulse, facial tonus, blinking, eye accessing cues, posture, movement internal rhythm, even metaprograms (the basic building blocks of personality) all can be 'paced' (followed) - this is how you get 'cooperation' using Buddy's terminology - but it's cooperation beyond normal awareness... pace two or three of these things successfully when next to someone you're attracted to and remember the feeling of the tingle in your lips that you feel when you're about to kiss someone you really like - then watch what happens

I've seen quite a lot of discussions in the PU community about those techniques. But the general agreement was that they would not work. Did you got them to work yourself?

P.

The PU community?

Pick Up. Those are the people who when the internet started, started on news groups (the infamous alt.seduction.fast ) to give each other tips on how to pick up women. Eventually they grew into a huge community with their own internal culture, schools, gurus, wars, and sacred texts. Well, one of those gurus (some would say one of the first, or even the first) was Ross Jeffries, who was an NLP guy, and is described in various book putting women in a slight trance to give them a slight push into falling for him. Many people don't like his methods, but leaving aside the ethical sideof it, the pragmatic one is equally interesting. Many people never managed to actually get that much success with NLP in a PU setting.

Uh, ok. Did it help (with females)?

"What is the purpose of Xingyi gazing practice?"

I don't mean to be arcane but it's not something I'm going to talk about on the internet.