Hi,
Sorry if this question has been asked, but if I do a search on "tao kundalini" on this forum it errors out..

Do Taoists believe, acknowledge or even recognize kundalini?

I'm not that familiar with Taoism. I've read Mantak Chia's Taoist Cosmic Healing book. In it, he recognizes the perenium as a center of energy but there is no mention of unleashing the kundalini.

Do Taoists ever have kundalini experiences?



TI

Hello Tibetan Ice

As I have heard the energy we work with in the universal tao system has to do with kundalini. I'm not shore but perhaps the fire element in the kun and li practises is the same as kundalini?

F D

Hi F D
I do not know what the "kun and li" practices are.. I've ordered a book called "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy & Immortality". Will the kun and li practices be in there, I wonder.. Or, is there a better book? I've seen a referral to the Wong book, but didn't see the title or anything else I could search Google on.

Does the fire element all of sudden become active, licking flames throughout the body, cleansing blockages and opening channels? In kundalini, the energy is referred to as Shakti (yin) and 'she' wants to join Shiva (yang) energy in the crown chakra. Does Taoism have that concept?

TI

I was told that kundalini are very different then Taoist practices. But there are similarities. Maybe you could describe to me more about the experience in detail of Kundalini for my own knowledge on the understanding. Its one to read metaphors its another thing to understand someone that has direct experience.

I've never heard of Fire all a sudden rising up like I've heard about Spontaneous Kundalini experiences.

In Taoism Fire is an element. There are 5 elements. First Balance Yin and Yang. Within yourself. Then you Strengthen elements. There are many different ways taoists would do this. I'm no expert on the subject. But to answer you clearly no fire doesn't not light up. But in almost all cases Fire is always apparent in ones body no matter how small the percentage is or weather its 100%.

Kundalini is not the energy itself, but the friction that occurs when the Yang chi starts its ascent up the pathways connected to the spine.

Taoist meditation does not put much emphasis on it, as it usually is viewed as only a sign that half of the job is done.

h

It so happened that I spent some time with a Kundalini yoga practitioner yesterday discussing and comparing our practices over a cup of tea. He is a student of Gurum's, you can find her videos on youtube and compare their practice to what you're doing. I noticed they do at least one thing quite similar to what I do in my qigong. They sit in half lotus and rotate their bodies in large circles from the waist, pretty vigorously. I sit in full lotus and write the yin-yang symbol with my whole body, also rotating from the waist, also vigorously.

Kundalini doesn't completely overlap with any one taoist concept, although some aspects of it are very close to jing and others, to zhi. Because it is more of an organizing principle than anything else, it is not an "energy," it is, rather, a configuration of events. It is a way for certain energies and meanings to manifest themselves that is different from the business-as-usual way they exist. The practice essentially re-configures some internal events just so that it can create a different set of functions without changing the structure. To "awaken the Kundalini" is like switching to another channel on your TV -- you don't change your TV yet all of a sudden you're watching a different movie. (Except of course if your TV was alive, intellingent, and emotional, the way you are, it could react emotionally, intellectually, and even physically to the very movie it is running, to the fact that it has been switched to something else, to the plot, the artistic merits and drawbacks, and maybe even to the personal message it could find there -- what if it was a movie that glorifies TV sets? suddenly switched to a movie that condemns them??? It could watch itself run this movie and be deeply affected by it... Not to the extent that it would turn into a washing machine, of course... but it could become "a different kind of TV.")

Interesting Taomoew, do you feel the trunk circles and or yin yang circles are a major key to activating Kundalini or what ever (fire) element?

WYG

Hi

Here is a short description of Kan and Li

http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/ima...KanLiScreen.jpg

F D

I agree with this answer most. job is half done, forget the word kundulini, just think of it as energy moving up your spine. Indian yoga traditions do not have a monopoly on energy moving up the spine, they just got hung up there thinking that was it

Any practice that restores pliability to the muscles of the mid-section and conductivity to its organs can result in an improved flow of internal events in their entirety, from the crude (blood and lymph flow, bile flow, intestinal motility, liver enzymes activation, etc.) to the subtle (electrochemical conductivity, neuronal communication -- we have nearly as many of those in the gut as in the brain), to the subtlest (memory flow, the body remembering its own developmental history -- both philogenic and ontogenic, i.e. one's own and that of the whole species and that of all life forms in existence). So, yes, I do think that either this, or whatever similar practice is key, but a practice is just a tool, if applied without a clear and realistic intent, and towards a misdirected, erroneous goal, it can do harm untold. The same practice can be very beneficial if the intent is integration (of the fragmented body-mind-spirit into a unified whole) and one is prepared to integrate "anything" such flow may dislodge from the numb, frozen, repressed, unconscious pool of one's own physiology, psychology, and early personal history.

Most people are not prepared for this and would be better off avoiding such practices. But once the groundwork is completed (by whatever means -- and the means toward this goal are rare and precious indeed), it's sheer freedom. It's like swimming... can anyone say if it's "good" or "bad," "safe" or "dangerous" without first asking quickly, "to whom?" To me it is safe under most normal conditions, I'm a good swimmer, you can throw me into the ocean off board a cruise ship and if the weather is reasonably calm and the water is reasonably warm and there's no sharks around, nothing bad will happen to me. But if someone never learned how to swim, it is very dangerous, and shortly deadly.

So what I do with my practice is not aimed at awakening Kundalini because I am after a different configuration of philogenic and ontogenic energies and events. But if someone is after that, then yes, midsection flow is key. Sometimes people disturb Kundalini accidentally while they're all blocked solid all the way above the lower spine. That's recipe for cultivation psychosis, a reliable one.

Thanks Taomoew, i suppose i have something similar with different levels called Dragon body that is based on spine. Possibly dragon could have the relationship of Kundalini serpent up the spine??

Thanks for the breakdown!

WYG

Hi Everyone
Thank you everyone for your responses. I've enjoyed reading your observations and approaches. It is so nice to have someone to talk to about all of this!

I received Charles Luk's "Taoist Yoga - Alchemy & Immortality" today and I think I found some insight on this subject (apart from what was posted by everyone ). On page 171 it says this:

"This is the method of uniting the five vitalities oin the heart, spleen, lungs, liver and kidneys into a single vitality which will then rise from the base of the spine and pass through the second gate (between the kidneys) and the back of the head to reach the brain (ni wan) and thrust through the original cavity of the spirit (tsu Ch'iao between and behind the eyes) to knock at the source of the nervous system (pai Hui).
The practiser should look up quickly in order to force open the heavenly gate (at the top of the skull); this consists of opening the eyes to look up (and so give a) thrust to burst open the gate with the combined force of the heart, intellect and thought.
If the five vitalities are full a golden light will soar up to unite with the light of (essential) nature to become a single light which is the union of the radiant vitality of the positive principle (yang) in the head and the bright light of the negative principle (yin) in the abdomen into one single light which will result in the egress from the immortal foetus".


This sure sounds like kundalini to me; combining Shakti (female) at the root with Shiva (male) at the top of the head. The root chakra is golden and emits a golden light. When I breathe a golden yellow electric current from my root chakra up my spine into my crown, I feel flames rising up to my heart level.

This is all so interesting! Now I'm wondering if both taoism and kundalini might complement each other and have practices that might help out or accelerate development. For example, kechari, which is placing the tongue on the soft palate is also mentioned in Micro Cosmic Orbit and other practices.. However, the yogis go a step further and cut the frenum and end up putting the tongue directly up the nasal cavity to cause ecstacy and other powerful developments. Hmmm..

TI

According to a famious Taoist master translated in "Secrets of Chinese Meditation" by Charles Luk, when the microcomsic orbit naturally becomes active from practicing reverse abdominal breathing while meditating on the Dan Tien, after it is full of chi and becomes burning hot, the heat and energy goes through the orbit, up the spine, burning and vibrating all over the body and continues back down the front of the body into the Dan Tien. This all takes place in stages and not necessarily in one instance. This phenomenon is exactly the same as described in Indian kundalini traditions and that of Tibet. The Taoists do not seem to call it kundalini, but he phenomenon is the same - same referent, different name.

In kind regards,

Adam.

TI,

There is only what is and the spiritual experience is universal regardless of tradition. Some acknowledge different things as signifigant or "it" but they are generally along the same line of experience.

Yes, in Taoism, Kundalini has been referred to as the Valley Spirit and by some as Tao itself (so have other things, depends on who you talk to ). I have found the Hindu tradition to have broken this down into a comprehensive explanation that makes sense to me. Remember though that part of any comprehensive system is the acknowledgement of that aspect that is not knowable and beyond knowing.

There are so many different terms that may overlap in meaning that make it more challenging to say this = that. For example, some people are referring to Kundalini Yoga, which is a practice in itself, aimed at the same thing all other traditions are seeking. But Kundalini Yoga is not Kundalini. Some see Kundalini as the generative force alone. This is a using the term in a way that is not generally accepted as what is being pointed at, however, it is more common than not - ig, Kun Lun uses the term that way.

Inner Alchemy is a practice that prepares ones body and energy channels to be able to as safely as possible handle Kundalini when it awakens. It also opens up inner space so that you can more fully integrate this into your consciousness (sometimes referred to as enlightenment when it is permanently ingrained / consious to the us as indivuals). This does not mean that the process is over though.

Kan and Li is a practice used in taoist inner alchemy after other fundamentals have been practiced and experienced in the way the process goes.

Chi or prana is generally characterised by being non intellegent and directable. Kundalini energy on the other hand IS intelligent and although may be sometimes be influenced by us, it is most readily accepted that it must be surrendered to as it is the true "doer" of all things. This is the divine Mother, yet, it also is not possible without the divine Father aspect that is referred to as the unknowable aspect. One can not exist without the other so really they are also one and the same. These are at a deep inner level of being yet always everywhere and everything.

There are also variations in types of Chi moving on a scale from closer to manifestation / physical to the unmanifested "uncarved block".

I would not recommend you try to practice anything out of the book you are buying without a teacher or that you find a book or system (if that is your goal) that is accessible and designed for the purpose of practice. Yes, it can be done without a human inperson teacher, but Kundalini is not something to pursue haphazardly as it is the most powerful thing there is.

That is my take on your questions.

Best,

Matt

Hi Matt
Thanks for your reply and insight.


TI