that once in a while people appear on the picture and tell everybody else their belief on what is true cultivation and the only true way of cultivation, and how to understand a certain phrase word etc., scripture, only true scripture etc. from a place and in a way as if they were the only authority on the matter? They are not asked for it but just do it. Then we always have the same story happen: they find supporters that feel so much resonating with it, maybe sharing same experiences etc. At the same time we have those who take a contra-position and fiercefully declare how little knowledge they actually have.

I have lost the idea in which way all of the above is beneficial to anyone. The only thing I always learn from it is to be supported in my idea of relativity of truth (which I have been scolded for) as long as one has not actually reached it. If one has reached it I assume none of us would actually enter any of the above.

Any ideas?



Harry

Well the secret is actually not words but nonwestern music. I recommend "Kenya and Tanzania: Witchcraft and Ritual Music".... haha. Words are fun though! Back to my music full-lotus trance overnight work schtick.

NO, Your wrong!! Just kidding....

Still kidding? Or.... in la la land? haha.

Hey guys. This was meant to be a serious topic

Hi Harry.
I think one reason could be fear/doubt, that our path is wrong maybe, and our ego argues about it, tries to convince others of our right in an attempt to lessen the doubt, to make it true for itself.
Whether that fear is unfounded or not is another matter though.

Hi "P",

okay. But isn't what you describe a reactive pattern when people openly address/question "you"? What use is there of a reactive pattern if noone ever openly made a step towards "you"?



Harry

changed my mind

hi Harry, i think it is one of the many ways, i tried that too. it goes like this:

first thing: in order to get any kind of results in your practice, the mind has to become as still as possible. it is not possible to get that when you have doubts. belief is actualy not about morality but can be taken as some sort of technical - pragmatic tool.

second thing: it's not very sane to try and argue with yourself in your head about what is right and what is wrong, what is the truth and what is not truth.

third thing: but hey, this is why we humans live as a comunity. you cant convince yourself, well, start convincing others. when others become convinced, and aply, your own doubts will go away very fast.

i know it sound simplistic and silly, but my experience showed it really works. the ego-mind cannot be convinced by itself, but it bows to the example of others.

i have the same game to play against myself, Harry, and one thing i learned the hard way was that doubts dont just work against others, they cut through our power too. and wisdom. and love. they are cut by our doubts. in christianity is one of the gratest sins. maybe in other relligions too, im not sure.

good luck

L1

Hello Harry.

Good question.

It would be great if those that actually participate in these ping pong contests stepped up to the plate, dropped their Badges of Allegiance for a moment, and answered from their true selves, what they believe they get out of participating in these online argy - bargies.


What hunger does it feed?

What need does it meet?

What is the highest motive behind it?

What is the lowest motive behind it?


If it's the same old 'my football team will beat your football team' or 'my dad's better than your dad'.. or if it's a missionary zeal to make the One Truth Known and Cast Asunder all the Vile Pretenders....

whatever it is, it would surely be beneficial to get some consciousness around it.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking. Can you elaborate?

Could it be because 99.99999% of all the opinions ever posted on here are complete and utter bullshit?

Just a thought

Thankx girls and guys so far. I think Little has made some interesting comments... what I meant was: it is one thing to jump at someone else, or start speaking as an authorative when they attack ones believes. I just could not make a rhyme out of appearing out of nowhere and preaching (in whatever ways) from a pulpit when there has no "open" attack been addressed at someone in the first place and indeed couldn't because they haven't been there to be attacked. With Little's ideas on the topic I start to realize a few things... maybe I should start adopting this approach for the reasons indicated



Harry

Interesting question - I think that our beliefs, practices, rituals, methods, labels, and all the rest of it are all thoughts that we use to define an image we call "me." "I" get attached to that and fear of loss/ desire of more sort of take over.

This is what forums are all about.. discussion and sharing of knowledge. You can take it or leave it, it's up to you to pick up things in this forum that you can relate to, or throw them away.

I don't understand why you are posting this :-) It's only natural for a discussion forum.

Read your answer here please:

"This is what forums are all about.. discussion and sharing of knowledge. You can take it or leave it, it's up to you to pick up things in this forum that you can relate to, or throw them away."



be assured I had not the "sharing of knowledge" in mind, whatever it might be you perceive it to be.

Harry

Yes but we all see truth from different perspectives. Hence there's a forum where we discuss things. If you take something that is posted as if the author of the post thinks he got THE TRUTH, then I think you are misinterpreting things.

And even if not - this is a forum consisting of different people so there will be different truths. I do not understand this post, still.

That's okay Chanwu. I get your point and some get mine



Harry

thats right harry, we are more creative in convincing others than in convincing ourselves.
in the end, its about efficiency.
if you can make others belive it, you will start to belive it too, slowly.

i think this is just a tool and can -and is - used many ways.
some get good with it, some get nasty...
there is also a paradox to it
only after you start to belive (in yourself also), you can discover whether you are a good person-virtuous type, or a not so virtuous type. this can still be solved, as we live in the land of impermanence.

and its only one of the applications of it.


L1