- http://www.kunlunbliss.com/subjects.html

Has there been any scientific studies to confirm that this meditation form really cause DNA mutations? It should be easy to test. How was the conclusion reached that it change the DNA of the body?

Chris , correct me if I am wrong. I believe what is meant by that is that it unlocks and reveals dormant parts of the DNA known as 'junk DNA' that are not normally used.

It is a bold claim, isn't it?

I haven't seen any actual scientific evidence yet...but there are a lot of claims for metaphysical "DNA activation and repair" floating around these days. So, Kunlun is hardly unique in that.

Well, the fact is that unicellular creature, microbes and such do have bits and pieces of dna that get activated when the right situation arises. So of course this awakens the desire that the same would be true for human as well. Is it? I don't think so. For once microbes are wey more evolved than us. They easily have a new generation in 24 hours, while we are some 10000 times slower. This means that we just never had the possibility to test enough sequences. I mean you can have a virus where the same code can be read in both direction. and I think even taking an ofset of one or two bases. Which means that the same code can be read in 6 different ways. All 6 meaningful. This is like having a book where if you ignore the first letter and you regroup the letters they have actually a different meaning. Now some spiritual books claim to be written in this way. But by and large it is too much work. Of course having sex gives us a bit of a shortcut. But then microbes have genetic internet, where they share their dna, like if you were to give a kiss to a red head girl, and you start to grow red hair. You can see how we are just so primitive respect to them. And this is why I wouldn't hold my breath on those practices being able to activate much code. Not that is impossible. Just VERY VERY unlikely.

Perhaps they do evolve more quickly, but dang...it would be catastrophic if we evolved too quickly. Civilization probably would have never taken root, things would have been in too much of a state of flux. Likening it to cosmology, galaxies would not have formed if gravity hadnt have sufficiently slowed expansion. Anyway, our level of complexity would just mean the changes would manifest more slowly, whatever they were...that is to say, if they in fact were

Microbes are indeed the most successful creatures on earth - in almost every single way... They can live in the most remote, lifeless of places (think nuclear waste, very deep in the oceans - where there is no oxygen or light and extreme pressures) - even a surprising proportion of each of our bodies relies on an ecosystem of micro-organisms... If you took the total weight of all the microbes on earth, they would outweigh all other life (or so I was told)

Yes, and I suspect by a lot.
Just think of planckton.

What really shock me was reading (The Red Queen) how the weight of microbes in your body is higher than the weight of your cells.
Now I don't have the book here, and I might be remembering it wrong. I mean maybe it is "just" the total number of microbe cells that is higher than the total number of our cells. Not the weight. In both cases is quite an interesting picture.

And it gives more sense to all those practices that work with changing, developing the internal ecosystem. Primal diet, but also those people that go in the desert because this kills some of the guests.

Also in the red queen there was a very interesting view of why do we age.

According to this the immune system is able to differentiate between your cells and the "not you" cells, because the first posses some sort of protein code that they only posses. (can you see that this in not my area of specialisation?) Every human being has a different one. And sex makes sure that the new generation get a new scrambled code. So for microbes they need to evolve to be able to match this code. When they do you basically have no defense against them. It is interesting, because in this view it would be quite hard to live really long. You might avoid all sort of deaths. But eventually the microbes will catch up with you. And if a new you would re-appear it would have a shorter life span because the microbes already are on their way to get your code...
sorry if this last pragraph didn't made much sense. To your consolation you might as well know that it didn't made much sense even on this side of the screen .


What I find puzzling in this view is that although it is hard to find a code, it is very easy to make a code harder. Just make it longer. So I am not that convinced myself.

I had read an article in Discover saying lots of activities can change your DNA, even just eating more onions or exercising more. The change can effect generations, too. I'll search for my post on it later.

Of you can find the peer reviewed paper I might be willing to pay you

...ya just have to keep in mind that peer reviewed doesnt mean scientifically bulletproof

I have also read (i forgot where) that sound such as mantras (it was an article on meditation) can change your DNA as well as exposure to certain amounts of different types of light...

Pietro,

Here it is: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover

I'm betting we'll find hiding in the "junk" DNA some amazing traits waiting for expression.

Yoda

I owe you!

And here is the peer reviewed paper:
Waterland, R.A, Jirtle RL. Early nutrition, epigenetic changes at transposons and imprinted genes, and enhanced susceptibility to adult chronic diseases. Nutrition 20: 63-68, 2004. [PDF]

I am seriously impressed.

Just go to the publication page of the supervisor, and look for all the papers from the authors.

fun stuff!

I like the junk DNA activation theory.

Even ETHEREAL strands of DNA is scientific enough sounding to be more attractive than other theories Ive located.

I get confused with Kunlun because up until hearing about it, I believed with all my heart that there was just one physiological route to enlightenment which has certain stages, as written by Bodri and Nan--who convincingly show that all schools of cultivation have certain steps in common. This necessarily included the step of Kundalini awakening. And Max is saying that theres another way to wash your vehicle, without the fire of Kundalini?

So the junk DNA explaination is attractive, but it loses its luster quickly when you realize DNA is just a construct of something, and that something is also a construct...and so on. And so the word DNA is just assuring to those who want to stop there and look no deeper.

So this brings me back to Alaya consciousness and little seeds and little habit and karmic energys that interact with the seeds. At least that is posited as the ultimate level, and its not necessary to tax ones brain further.

I don't know about changing DNA but I learned a very esoteric qigong method about two years ago which is supposed to rejuvenate the cells. It's very involved and time consuming but once I do it all of my aches and pains (I have quite a few) dissappear as if they were never there.

It brings about a very strong sensation of movement within the body with its visualizations and other components while one works his way from head to toe concentrating on various organs and other components.

So do I believe that DNA mutation is possible? Why not?

I don't dissect these practices with science. If something works then fine. If it doesn't then I move on.

Believing in what one does to be true in the context of qigong / neigong is part of the thing working or not.


John

What is the name of this qigong Jhon ?

Bodri and Nan are right and Kunlun practice doesn't negate what they are saying.

You'll have to tune in in a few years when we get a handle on what Kunlun is and we'll let you know! Max did say that compared to Kundalini, Kunlun is very esoteric.

My theory is that they get the same job done, but that Kunlun may be a much easier road for most average joes and josephines.

It is part of the Sin Tien Wuji system that I've been learning.

These children have very different DNA
Each new generation has more advanced code
Is it the-one-law that governs evolution?

Paul Dong and Thomas E. Raffill wrote China's Super Psychics. It reports what has been transpiring in China around these new psychic children who have begun to emerge since 1974 with the young boy who could see with his ears. Actually, the Chinese government claims that these children, when blindfolded, could see either with their ears, nose, mouth, tongue, armpits, hands or feet. Each child was different and their vision from these unheard of areas was perfect. These tests were not just a percentage right some of the time; they were flawless.

I first spoke about these children in 1985 when I mentioned the article about them in Omni magazine. Omni was invited to come to China to observe some of these children and write an article about them. Omni assumed that there might be cheating involved, so when they were given some of these children to test, they conducted their examinations in a way that ruled out any possible cheating. They left nothing to chance.

One of the tests began this way: With the children present, Omni took a stack of books and at random selected one of them, then opened the book at random and ripped out a page, crumpling it up into a small ball. Omni then placed it in the armpit of one of these children - and this child could read every word on the page perfectly! After many varied tests, Omni became convinced that the phenomenon was real, but they could not explain how these kids were doing it. Their report was released in their January 1985 issue.

But Omni was not the only one to send researchers to observe these children. Several other world magazines and also papers in respected journals such as Nature, a prestigious science magazine, have also agreed that this phenomenon is real.


The Indigo children, as they are now called by science, were first traced back to the year 1984. This was the year when suddenly a child appeared with very different human traits. As of 1999, science has suggested that approximately 80 to 90 percent of all the children born in the United States are Indigo children. I believe it probably will rise to nearly 100 percent in the future. You and I are obviously being phased out. These children are being born not only in the U.S., but also in many other areas of the world that seem to be connected with the wide use of computers.

Lee Carroll and Jan Tober have written a book called The Indigo Children: The New Kids Have Arrived. It is a book of compiled scientific studies, letters and notes written by medical doctors, psychologists and scientists who have been studying these new children since they were first discovered. It is the first book in the world, I believe, to discuss these new children. I have been aware of these children for the last ten years or more, and I have been discussing them with hundreds of people and children's groups that have also noticed the change. Yet no one officially recognized them until this book appeared. So I thank Lee and Jan for this timely edition. Please read this book if you wish to know more of the details.

Now, how are these children different? Science has not yet figured out exactly what the specific DNA change is that has taken place in this new race, but it is obvious that one has happened. First of all, these children have a different liver than ours, which means there has to be a DNA change. This liver change is, naturally, a response to the new foods we are eating. The new liver is designed to eat, of all things, junk food!

Sound funny? Why? We would all become increasingly unhealthy or even die if we continued to eat these kinds of foods on a long-term basis. What happens to cockroaches when you feed them poison? At first they get sick and die, but then they mutate, change their DNA and end up loving our poisons. We have to keep changing our poisons because they keep adapting to them. Do you think that human beings are any different? We continue to feed our kids poisonous junk food, so they have to adapt to survive.

But this liver change is nothing compared to the other revisions in human nature and genetics. First of all, these Indigo children are brilliant. They have an IQ that averages around 130, and I do mean average, as many of these kids are way up in the genius range of 160 or higher. A 130 IQ is not a genius, but it used to be that only one person in 10,000 had it. Now it is becoming normal. The intelligence of the human race has just jumped into a new range.