I've never been more afraid in my life, We are on the brink of economic collapse and martial law. I have 6 years of food, multivitamins, and clean water available, but will it be enough? I am worried just about basic survival...
Anyone else here feel the same?
Is anyone else preparing?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=70...IST%3A+ADDENDUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYxTzDFofZQ
http://blog4paul.blogspot.com/2008/10/hcr-...izona-will.html
QUOTE(mwight @ Oct 9 2008, 01:17 PM) 
I've never been more afraid in my life, We are on the brink of economic collapse and martial law. I have 6 years of food, multivitamins, and clean water available, but will it be enough? I am worried just about basic survival...
Anyone else here feel the same?
Is anyone else preparing?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=70...IST%3A+ADDENDUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYxTzDFofZQ
http://blog4paul.blogspot.com/2008/10/hcr-...izona-will.html
Why don't you leave?
Why don't you go to Mexico? Or Canada?
Why don't you go while the frontiers are still open?
I would not suggest that everybody need to leave, but if you are so scared (and maybe with reason), then maybe you should just be in a better place.
And I am coming to the US for just 2 weeks for a workshop, and I am already feeling uneasy about it.
Like walking under the leaning tower of Pisa, on a windy day, while the tower is moving and cracking.
Other than some headlines, and youtube videos, everything is still normal in my life. I still have a job, still can buy food, still can cash my check at the bank. Sure, the economy is bad right now, it has been before. Being prepared is good, but no need to be alarmist until something is actually happening to you. (not you in particular mwight) People can speculate almost any circumstance or story. Connect enough dots to bring validity to a theory. Really only time will tell.
I wonder about what will happen, how we will recover, because I believe we will. But I am not scared for my life.
I wonder about what will happen, how we will recover, because I believe we will. But I am not scared for my life.
In a word, no.
There are many threats to my life.
What is security, after all?
Is it anything more than an abstraction?
There are many threats to my life.
What is security, after all?
Is it anything more than an abstraction?
It's reasonable to be afraid, if you know history. We have lived in a time that seems like all good things will never come to an end...but keep in mind that the USA is VERY young.
But of course just being afraid isn't very useful.
But of course just being afraid isn't very useful.
QUOTE(Pietro @ Oct 9 2008, 08:28 AM)
Why don't you leave?
Why don't you go to Mexico? Or Canada?
Why don't you go while the frontiers are still open?
I would not suggest that everybody need to leave, but if you are so scared (and maybe with reason), then maybe you should just be in a better place.
And I am coming to the US for just 2 weeks for a workshop, and I am already feeling uneasy about it.
Like walking under the leaning tower of Pisa, on a windy day, while the tower is moving and cracking.
As someone from Canada, I feel like piping in here. If the USA goes bughouse, Canada will not be safe. Perhaps in the nothern wilderness... but imagining that a border will protect us is silly. Borders are political constructions, and if the political world goes crazy, the border means nothing.
That said, I'm not terribly worried right now. A recession doesn't equal martial law, fascism or famine. It happens from time to time. If nobody panics, all will be ok. I'd like to emphasize that: panic is what turns bad times into chaos. Fear gone wild is what allows a government to overstep its authority and become a monster. Just stay calm, keep perspective (yes, you may not be able to drive your car as much or buy as much crap) and things will go much smoother.
I know a guy who camped out with machine guns and zillions of rounds for the y2k. He was disappointed overall.
QUOTE(mwight @ Oct 9 2008, 07:17 AM)
I've never been more afraid in my life, We are on the brink of economic collapse and martial law. I have 6 years of food, multivitamins, and clean water available, but will it be enough? I am worried just about basic survival...
Anyone else here feel the same?
Is anyone else preparing?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=70...IST%3A+ADDENDUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYxTzDFofZQ
http://blog4paul.blogspot.com/2008/10/hcr-...izona-will.html
Fear unchecked freezes you and does no good. Just keep a basic survival kit and a camping type cooker. Things might get pretty bad for a while (especially now that the bailout has been passed) but without more terrorist attacks martial law will not likely be declared. (You haven't been listening to Glenn Beck too much have you?) Also, re: specifying this to America, European and Asian countries are closer to complete government control at this point than the US is. Iceland announced today that they have nationalized most if not all of their banks, the UK is close behind, and the Euro has the Eurozone in a position that if one falls, they all do, yet they are still fighting about who is doing what.
Anyway, again, just keep yourself prepared. A good survival kit and cooker is useful even if nothing happens (which is really the most likely outcome), and this is coming from someone who slept through Ike a few weeks ago. Might want to at least get a shotgun too, just in case : )
not glen beck, but cspan, and reddit/digg.com. The bailout passed only because senators were told if they didn't pass it we would be living under martial law. In my opinion it's gotten too serious to ignore anymore.
QUOTE(mwight @ Oct 9 2008, 09:57 AM)
not glen beck, but cspan, and reddit/digg.com. The bailout passed only because senators were told if they didn't pass it we would be living under martial law. In my opinion it's gotten too serious to ignore anymore.
Certainly don't ignore what is going on, but don't freak out about it either. Keep a historical perspective, there have been worse times, much worse, we just didn't have 24 hour news and constant noise telling us how bad things were. They keep saying that things are as bad as the thirties, but we didn't have many of the things then that we do now. Again, don't freak out, that is what will contribute to what you fear, just be cautious and plan ahead, like always.
Hello
Of course there will be changes. What seems to be a bad thing isn¨t necessarily so. With bad comes good also as yang is withing yin. repressions might forces some changes in economy in society and in your personal life, tthey might hurt you, but they migth also be good in somebother way that might not be recognized amidiately but maybe years later.
Prepare yourself with things that is possible to do and that might help you. But the best thing is to be prepared on the inside. To realise in the deepth of yourself that whatever might happen you will manage the situation you are prepared for everything and nothing worries you before hand. Take the bad things and takle them when they realy have arrived, not worry about things that might happen. Live in the pressent moment. Do what you have to do when there is a neccessity to do things. Be helpful to others and they might be helpful to you when you need it.
Worry less take action more!
F D
Of course there will be changes. What seems to be a bad thing isn¨t necessarily so. With bad comes good also as yang is withing yin. repressions might forces some changes in economy in society and in your personal life, tthey might hurt you, but they migth also be good in somebother way that might not be recognized amidiately but maybe years later.
Prepare yourself with things that is possible to do and that might help you. But the best thing is to be prepared on the inside. To realise in the deepth of yourself that whatever might happen you will manage the situation you are prepared for everything and nothing worries you before hand. Take the bad things and takle them when they realy have arrived, not worry about things that might happen. Live in the pressent moment. Do what you have to do when there is a neccessity to do things. Be helpful to others and they might be helpful to you when you need it.
Worry less take action more!
F D
QUOTE(Yoda @ Oct 9 2008, 09:14 AM)
I know a guy who camped out with machine guns and zillions of rounds for the y2k. He was disappointed overall.
OH.... you know my brother! LOL I spent New Years Eve with him at Y2K and he was just shocked that I was going to drive home and go to bed and not stay with him and all the guns and dried food. I guess I have spent too many years in the Army to worry about some hardship.
When the markets fell this week I got a major raise at work so I am not too worried. All the conspiracy theories are falling flat in my opinion but they will resurface for a bunch of new-comers soon enough I guess.
QUOTE(DarinHamel @ Oct 9 2008, 08:15 AM)
When the markets fell this week I got a major raise at work so I am not too worried. All the conspiracy theories are falling flat in my opinion but they will resurface for a bunch of new-comers soon enough I guess.
Congratulations on the raise. Hopefully it doesn't require much more responsibility and is a result of good work already done.
On topic...it bums me out how much money I have lost in recent weeks and months but the markets are always a gamble to some extent. The financial world is mostly an illusion and the real problem we have right now is faith. People should realize that fear is just lack of faith. I hope people find what they need to be comfortable during these seemingly turbulent times.
Ultimately I am much more concerned about a global flu pandemic than I am about the financial crisis. That's when all that stored food and water would come in handy!
QUOTE(mwight @ Oct 9 2008, 07:17 AM)
I've never been more afraid in my life, We are on the brink of economic collapse and martial law. I have 6 years of food, multivitamins, and clean water available, but will it be enough? I am worried just about basic survival...
Anyone else here feel the same?
I think you have made many more preps than most. Anyone else here feel the same?
I don't necessarily see the worst-case scenario happening (a starving police state). I think life and consumerism will still go on.
However, you can probably expect inflation, increased crime (especially near urban ghettos like with the LA riots), people stressing out and decaying infrastructure that municipalities can't afford to maintain anymore. Gold & guns will become more important for real money & home defense. This is basically what has happened to Argentina after 2001.
Here is what one guy there suggested for when the initial STHF:
QUOTE
First, make sure you have enough supplies ( food and water) to last for a couple of weeks at least. If you don’t, rush to the supermarket and buy it using credit card if they still accept it.
If you have enough food, stay put at home and keep track through the TV of what’s going on. Don’t go out there just to fool around.
IN our case, martial law and curfew at 8 PM was established, people could not gather in group greater than 2 or 3 persons, so it was not safe anyway. None the less, few obeyed all this crap, but it was still established so you know what you were dealing with if cops caught you.
The greatest need when the lootings started was means to defend yourself. Maybe that’s why I encourage everyone to make weapons part of their basic preparedness kits, right along with food, water, money, and medicines. We watched daily as the lootings spread everywhere, and when the mobs of distressed people started looting homes along with the supermarkets and shops, things got really scary. I watched such a mob pass about 15-20 yards from my home. At first I only heard drums ( used during the protests) but these protesters were also looting along the way. The mass of looters was huge, covered the entire street and sidewalk, all across as far as I could see, a block long or more.
So, having means to defend yourself is very important during the first days as well as later on, after the veil of fear of “punishment per crime” is removed from the society.
People that seem normal during “normal” times, unleash the animals they keep at bay during law abiding times. The evil among normal people also surprised me. Average Joe takes advantage of the possibility to loot without getting punished for it if he sees the chance. Hell, nothing people do surprises me anymore.
Then there was the need to get cash, which disappeared within hours from ATMs after banks closed. The “NO credit card” signs showed up instantly. Only cash. And cash was getting very hard to find.
Many supermarkets closed their doors, fearing looters, and those that were opened quickly started to run out of basic supplies.
As for advice:
-Keep a healthy amount of cash at home at all times. Precious metals work but you’ll need cash to get by until banks and financial entities willing to pay a fair price reopen. Selling your gold in a pawn shop will be bad business, most likely they’ll try to get advantage of your need. At least until the market settles and then they’ll start paying according to the real value, but this takes some time.
-Have a gun for self defense, and learn how to use it. If you only have one weapon, make that a handgun and a box or two of premium ammo. Why handgun and not a long arm? Because things will be VERY dangerous out there and you’ll be wanting some protection, even when walking the dog, picking up mail, or going to the grocery around the corner, you cant’ do that with a long arm, and THOSE are the times you need to be armed the most.
-Have at least one or two months worth of food, water, medicines ( prescription meds you need for a certain condition you may have!), whatever you use around your house, such as soap, shampoo, dishwasher soap and various cleaning supplies. Once you have that, work towards a 6 to 12 month supply, specially concerning food. 2 or 3 years worth? Yes, nice to have but if you see the SHTF period extending that long, you better have a place to relocate because its’ simply not safe to be there anymore.
-Work towards financial security. Money in accounts in two or three countries, investments portfolios, real estate. Try placing your eggs in different baskets because, as we talked about it earlier, you can’t really trust them. Real estate is probably the safest and easiest form of investment, it has worked for my family really well, even through the crisis. We still have the pieces of land and buildings over it. It looses some value but adjusts over time to the reality of the country, going back to become a source of income.
-Have back up plans for EVERYTHING. Alternative sources of light, for transportation , fuel, ways of cooking, but most of all, have another location to move in case it is no longer possible to continue in the country or region where you are. This is my case and I’m really glad to have alternatives to move out of my country. I’m not talking about a cabin somewhere or a retreat, once things get that bad, you better get moving and relocating somewhere else, another state or even another country. You simply can’t fight the reality around you when crime gets out of control, along with everything else. Have your papers ready ( passport, birth certificate, etc)
-Know that during troubled times a house, retreat or cabin is of any use as long as it is inhabited. If SHTF for real, no empty building remains empty for long. Either it gets picked to the bare walls, or even worse , you find it one day with a family or several already established in there, which will take a long time for you to evict the invaders through legal channels.
-Keep a low profile. Showing off money or expensive clothes, flashy cars or jewelry is a good way to get targeted by criminals.
-Understand that in just a matter of weeks crime starts increasing exponentially when serious SHTF such as an economical collapse occurs. These kind of situations may take decades to reverse, or maybe never go back to what it used to be.
When I was 20 years old I lived in a 1st world country, 8 years later it’s a mixture of cheapo 3rd world tourist sites, a bit of tasteful 1900 architecture, surrounded by sights fitting either Ecuador, Colombia or some kind of war zone, and it all went to hell in a hand basket in less than a year. The change was amazing for anyone that cared to notice. Libraries, churches, town theaters, it all closed and later reopened having been replaced by bar-***** house joints, “All for 2$” shops, Bingos, casinos, self proclaimed churches, many with links to Umbanda Brazilian rituals. A perfect example of the decay in our society trough the last years.
Hope that helps.
I've recently experienced some fear issues too (that I didn't realize I had), when the things I had put faith in for security in life were threatened. Spritually, I now realize that it is foolish to ground your faith in anything materialistic, that can come and go. It's an unreliable attachment. IMO, you best put your faith in a higher power. I think that is the only way to get out of fear mode.If you have enough food, stay put at home and keep track through the TV of what’s going on. Don’t go out there just to fool around.
IN our case, martial law and curfew at 8 PM was established, people could not gather in group greater than 2 or 3 persons, so it was not safe anyway. None the less, few obeyed all this crap, but it was still established so you know what you were dealing with if cops caught you.
The greatest need when the lootings started was means to defend yourself. Maybe that’s why I encourage everyone to make weapons part of their basic preparedness kits, right along with food, water, money, and medicines. We watched daily as the lootings spread everywhere, and when the mobs of distressed people started looting homes along with the supermarkets and shops, things got really scary. I watched such a mob pass about 15-20 yards from my home. At first I only heard drums ( used during the protests) but these protesters were also looting along the way. The mass of looters was huge, covered the entire street and sidewalk, all across as far as I could see, a block long or more.
So, having means to defend yourself is very important during the first days as well as later on, after the veil of fear of “punishment per crime” is removed from the society.
People that seem normal during “normal” times, unleash the animals they keep at bay during law abiding times. The evil among normal people also surprised me. Average Joe takes advantage of the possibility to loot without getting punished for it if he sees the chance. Hell, nothing people do surprises me anymore.
Then there was the need to get cash, which disappeared within hours from ATMs after banks closed. The “NO credit card” signs showed up instantly. Only cash. And cash was getting very hard to find.
Many supermarkets closed their doors, fearing looters, and those that were opened quickly started to run out of basic supplies.
As for advice:
-Keep a healthy amount of cash at home at all times. Precious metals work but you’ll need cash to get by until banks and financial entities willing to pay a fair price reopen. Selling your gold in a pawn shop will be bad business, most likely they’ll try to get advantage of your need. At least until the market settles and then they’ll start paying according to the real value, but this takes some time.
-Have a gun for self defense, and learn how to use it. If you only have one weapon, make that a handgun and a box or two of premium ammo. Why handgun and not a long arm? Because things will be VERY dangerous out there and you’ll be wanting some protection, even when walking the dog, picking up mail, or going to the grocery around the corner, you cant’ do that with a long arm, and THOSE are the times you need to be armed the most.
-Have at least one or two months worth of food, water, medicines ( prescription meds you need for a certain condition you may have!), whatever you use around your house, such as soap, shampoo, dishwasher soap and various cleaning supplies. Once you have that, work towards a 6 to 12 month supply, specially concerning food. 2 or 3 years worth? Yes, nice to have but if you see the SHTF period extending that long, you better have a place to relocate because its’ simply not safe to be there anymore.
-Work towards financial security. Money in accounts in two or three countries, investments portfolios, real estate. Try placing your eggs in different baskets because, as we talked about it earlier, you can’t really trust them. Real estate is probably the safest and easiest form of investment, it has worked for my family really well, even through the crisis. We still have the pieces of land and buildings over it. It looses some value but adjusts over time to the reality of the country, going back to become a source of income.
-Have back up plans for EVERYTHING. Alternative sources of light, for transportation , fuel, ways of cooking, but most of all, have another location to move in case it is no longer possible to continue in the country or region where you are. This is my case and I’m really glad to have alternatives to move out of my country. I’m not talking about a cabin somewhere or a retreat, once things get that bad, you better get moving and relocating somewhere else, another state or even another country. You simply can’t fight the reality around you when crime gets out of control, along with everything else. Have your papers ready ( passport, birth certificate, etc)
-Know that during troubled times a house, retreat or cabin is of any use as long as it is inhabited. If SHTF for real, no empty building remains empty for long. Either it gets picked to the bare walls, or even worse , you find it one day with a family or several already established in there, which will take a long time for you to evict the invaders through legal channels.
-Keep a low profile. Showing off money or expensive clothes, flashy cars or jewelry is a good way to get targeted by criminals.
-Understand that in just a matter of weeks crime starts increasing exponentially when serious SHTF such as an economical collapse occurs. These kind of situations may take decades to reverse, or maybe never go back to what it used to be.
When I was 20 years old I lived in a 1st world country, 8 years later it’s a mixture of cheapo 3rd world tourist sites, a bit of tasteful 1900 architecture, surrounded by sights fitting either Ecuador, Colombia or some kind of war zone, and it all went to hell in a hand basket in less than a year. The change was amazing for anyone that cared to notice. Libraries, churches, town theaters, it all closed and later reopened having been replaced by bar-***** house joints, “All for 2$” shops, Bingos, casinos, self proclaimed churches, many with links to Umbanda Brazilian rituals. A perfect example of the decay in our society trough the last years.
Hope that helps.
People do need to prepare and react quickly to things, but try to do it without fear. Fear is unhealthy and will only make thing worse.
But try to prepare your "liferaft" now while stuff is still available and before inflation. Preserve what wealth you can in safer forms, stock up on some food/water supplies, build your home pharmacy and get a piece or pepper spray or something.
Better to get started now than have to fight mobs for this stuff later... You're going to want to already have the know-how and gear ON HAND. Not have to research it then and order it, waiting for weeks...
For decades we have been living on credit in an illusion based on 10X fractional banking, unbacked fiat paper currency and deficit-spending spiraled out of control. Meanwhile, Icke-ian moles have been quietly assuming their NW0 posts. A collapse is simply an overdue correction waiting to happen.
Much of the selling is overdone, stock prices are back to 2003 levels, but gas is not 2$ and housing values have not decreased by half, good and sevice prices are not back to 2003 levels. I believe it's more of an opportunity to start nibbling once it stabilizes a little, if you did not get out before the bottom don't do so now, it will get better- and on the chance it degrades into utter chaos money might be worthless anyway.
Recession happens. We're over due, the business cycles of growth and bust used to move much faster. I think Taoist81 has said it best.
If your gut says you must prepare, honor the feeling, but realize the worst is unlikely to happen, don't burn bridges and calmly do what you need and relax having done it. Fear helps nothing.
Michael
If your gut says you must prepare, honor the feeling, but realize the worst is unlikely to happen, don't burn bridges and calmly do what you need and relax having done it. Fear helps nothing.
Michael
QUOTE(zanshin @ Oct 9 2008, 12:29 PM)
Much of the selling is overdone, stock prices are back to 2003 levels, but gas is not 2$ and housing values have not decreased by half, good and sevice prices are not back to 2003 levels. I believe it's more of an opportunity to start nibbling once it stabilizes a little, if you did not get out before the bottom don't do so now, it will get better- and on the chance it degrades into utter chaos money might be worthless anyway.
Um, yeah, you are right that a perfect time to get into the market is on its way, but this would be one of the worst times for anyone who hasn't gotten out to get out. Even during the Depression stocks rebounded after a few months. The problems came from everyone emptying bank accounts and defaulting on loans....hmm, sound familiar?
Now why do you think old man Lao Tzu had his fill society hmm?
The surface of life will always do this; it rises and falls in chaotic ways. And if you allow yourself to be attached to it your emotional and mental state will be tossed and thrown about like a leaf in the wind.
Find the depths and establish your root there. Now of course you have to be mindful of the surface and respond where and when is truly appropriate, but try and develop an impartial approach to the comings and goings of worldly events and find the space deep within yourself that is calm and peaceful.
The surface of life will always do this; it rises and falls in chaotic ways. And if you allow yourself to be attached to it your emotional and mental state will be tossed and thrown about like a leaf in the wind.
Find the depths and establish your root there. Now of course you have to be mindful of the surface and respond where and when is truly appropriate, but try and develop an impartial approach to the comings and goings of worldly events and find the space deep within yourself that is calm and peaceful.
On the surface, the weather changes, physical health fluctuates, economics ebb & flow................in this world of manifestation, is there anything which is not unstable?
Now why do you think old man Lao Tzu had his fill society hmm?
The surface of life will always do this; it rises and falls in chaotic ways. And if you allow yourself to be attached to it your emotional and mental state will be tossed and thrown about like a leaf in the wind.
Find the depths and establish your root there. Now of course you have to be mindful of the surface and respond where and when is truly appropriate, but try and develop an impartial approach to the comings and goings of worldly events and find the space deep within yourself that is calm and peaceful.
Oh Stig, EXACTLY
Excellent mate !!
QUOTE(Stigweard @ Oct 10 2008, 06:20 AM)
Now why do you think old man Lao Tzu had his fill society hmm?
The surface of life will always do this; it rises and falls in chaotic ways. And if you allow yourself to be attached to it your emotional and mental state will be tossed and thrown about like a leaf in the wind.
Find the depths and establish your root there. Now of course you have to be mindful of the surface and respond where and when is truly appropriate, but try and develop an impartial approach to the comings and goings of worldly events and find the space deep within yourself that is calm and peaceful.
Oh Stig, EXACTLY
Excellent mate !!
So, what would be good foods to stock?
Canned goods with a high nutritional value and a shelf life of many years to come, sterilised milk with a very long shelf life, what else?
And how would you supply yourself with water for months or years?
Canned goods with a high nutritional value and a shelf life of many years to come, sterilised milk with a very long shelf life, what else?
And how would you supply yourself with water for months or years?
QUOTE(Stigweard @ Oct 9 2008, 01:20 PM)
Now why do you think old man Lao Tzu had his fill society hmm?
The surface of life will always do this; it rises and falls in chaotic ways. And if you allow yourself to be attached to it your emotional and mental state will be tossed and thrown about like a leaf in the wind.
Find the depths and establish your root there. Now of course you have to be mindful of the surface and respond where and when is truly appropriate, but try and develop an impartial approach to the comings and goings of worldly events and find the space deep within yourself that is calm and peaceful.
So true....difficult, harsh at times...but TRUE ...
QUOTE(froggie @ Oct 9 2008, 09:16 PM)
So, what would be good foods to stock?
Canned goods with a high nutritional value and a shelf life of many years to come, sterilised milk with a very long shelf life, what else?
And how would you supply yourself with water for months or years?
Rice, cans of beans etc... Stuff that is cheap, high in nutrition, easily storable and has a long shelf life. For water, the berkey water filters. You may never use this stuff but at least you'll sleep a little better. Also Matt Wight had a great suggestion a while back on multivitamins. You can also google disaster preparedness kits as far flashlights and other tools.
Namo Amitabha!
QUOTE(mwight @ Oct 9 2008, 09:17 AM)
I've never been more afraid in my life, We are on the brink of economic collapse and martial law. I have 6 years of food, multivitamins, and clean water available, but will it be enough? I am worried just about basic survival...
Anyone else here feel the same?
Is anyone else preparing?
I am not affraid for myself, but worry for my children. I have taken some precautions, but perhaps not enough if the SHTF. Again, it may all be in vain, but you can always eat the food, vitamins etc...
As an aside I called my bank and after waiting on hold for 20 minutes asked to have my debit limit increased from $500 to $1500. Nope. They can only increase it by a max of $500 every 6 months, and had to approve me. I laughed at him and said really, for my own money!
Take what precautions you can brothers. I pray that this all blows over and I look like a total fool.
Brgds!
QUOTE(mwight @ Oct 9 2008, 05:17 AM)
I've never been more afraid in my life, We are on the brink of economic collapse and martial law. I have 6 years of food, multivitamins, and clean water available, but will it be enough? I am worried just about basic survival...
Anyone else here feel the same?
Is anyone else preparing?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=70...IST%3A+ADDENDUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYxTzDFofZQ
http://blog4paul.blogspot.com/2008/10/hcr-...izona-will.html
Economic collapse....you know that the unemployment rate is america is actually down and low? It's at 6%.
I think preparing in advance is smart, especially if it gives you peace of mind. America is too much reliant upon the threat of law to for social order, things can erupt in the blink of an eye.
Chlorella is a superfood which is almost a stand-alone food. I have vacuum packed tablets which I notice are good until 2011. Another idea.
Chlorella is a superfood which is almost a stand-alone food. I have vacuum packed tablets which I notice are good until 2011. Another idea.
I watched a couple of those videos and have to point out the pure fear mongering tactics involved here. It looks like a bunch of nut-jobs have made these videos in hopes of getting everyone to panic. Youtube isnt exactly an authorative source of information.
Bear in mind:
The USA is still number 1 financially in the world with the largest enconomy (http://www.aneki.com/largest_economies.html)
Financial crisis happen all the time in lots of countries to little effect for the average person, after the 2nd world war Britian was completely broke financially, yet is now the 6th largest economy.
The USA has strong resources and will never collapse like other countries have. That being said, prepare to be 2nd best to China when they soon become the largest economy.
I cant realistically see anything to worry about here, the only thing of concern is the fear mongering and panic spreading by videos like the ones on this thread and people believing what they hear from any source without justification.
Events like these have happened all the time throughout history, we just hear about them more now due to things like the internet and youtube.
QUOTE(Jakara @ Oct 10 2008, 07:39 AM)
I watched a couple of those videos and have to point out the pure fear mongering tactics involved here. It looks like a bunch of nut-jobs have made these videos in hopes of getting everyone to panic. Youtube isnt exactly an authorative source of information.
Bear in mind:
The USA is still number 1 financially in the world with the largest enconomy (http://www.aneki.com/largest_economies.html)
Financial crisis happen all the time in lots of countries to little effect for the average person, after the 2nd world war Britian was completely broke financially, yet is now the 6th largest economy.
The USA has strong resources and will never collapse like other countries have. That being said, prepare to be 2nd best to China when they soon become the largest economy.
I cant realistically see anything to worry about here, the only thing of concern is the fear mongering and panic spreading by videos like the ones on this thread and people believing what they hear from any source without justification.
Events like these have happened all the time throughout history, we just hear about them more now due to things like the internet and youtube.
Those "nuts" on youtube are speaking more truth than you will ever hear on the mainstream media. The problem my friend is that all previous collapses have been regionally isolated. What we are about to witness is the collapse of the de facto global currency: the US dollar. The United States produces very little now (how many stickers say made in the USA on products you buy?), and it will not be easy to bounce back. I agree with you about China at least. I sounded the alarm for you guys a couple weeks ago. I don't really have much more to say on the subject.
QUOTE(Jakara @ Oct 10 2008, 11:39 AM)
The USA has strong resources and will never collapse like other countries have.
emphasis added mine
In the 16th century if I remember correctly Spain collapsed. Spain was the richest, strongest nation in Europe. It went to America and imported enough shitloads of silver. And yet 100 years later they had to declare bacrupt, and not one but several times.
Those things happen.
If things go bad, as they are, you will have to start the printing press, and if you do that, the other nations of the world will want less and less of your paper. Euro will become even more The currency. When this happens nothing will stop your internal inflation to go really high. Look those trends take more than one lifetime to happen, you cannot base yourself on what has happened in your life, you need to at least expand over centuries and different nations.
Maybe you should start local currencies. But the problem with local currencies is that they are only good in a region. They cannot be used to import food from abroad.
Shit happens.
xuesheng and stigweard have it spot on 
Guess what, no matter how many cans of beans you store if the SHTF you would only have food for a couple of months max. But, if you learn to hunt, fish and cultivate crops then you can sustain yourself!
That's if you make it alive out of the towns and cities and are prepared to kill for what little resources you have.
It will make life a lot more interesting for sure and maybe I will feel like a real man, living out my nature instead of enjoying constant back pain from being a desk jockey shuffling paper. Who knows, maybe a fairer and more just society could come out of it if there was a purge of the establishment.
That's why I am convinced it would never go that far. The establishment e.g. rulers and the rich would never allow society to disintegrate to the level where they are equal among men. They have to and will protect their interests.
Society of some form would continue even if the SHTF economically. It would take something like a global plauge to destroy it.
Guess what, no matter how many cans of beans you store if the SHTF you would only have food for a couple of months max. But, if you learn to hunt, fish and cultivate crops then you can sustain yourself!
That's if you make it alive out of the towns and cities and are prepared to kill for what little resources you have.
It will make life a lot more interesting for sure and maybe I will feel like a real man, living out my nature instead of enjoying constant back pain from being a desk jockey shuffling paper. Who knows, maybe a fairer and more just society could come out of it if there was a purge of the establishment.
That's why I am convinced it would never go that far. The establishment e.g. rulers and the rich would never allow society to disintegrate to the level where they are equal among men. They have to and will protect their interests.
Society of some form would continue even if the SHTF economically. It would take something like a global plauge to destroy it.
[b]Great, more conspiracy bullshit, hey on another note, aliens or some shit are visiting on the 14th of October. I'm leaving this site now, thanks to all the fake posers and conspiracy nonsense.
QUOTE(MPWay @ Oct 10 2008, 02:21 PM)
[b]Great, more conspiracy bullshit, hey on another note, aliens or some shit are visiting on the 14th of October. I'm leaving this site now, thanks to all the fake posers and conspiracy nonsense.
That's the spirit. Call the other kids names, pack up your ball and head home. Why are you so affraid of different ideas and opinions?
I agree with those that say that fear is not healthy and as long as we aren't attached to the material world, it will only take some being prepared and time will take care of everything. But in my opinion, the CONTROL factor, is what should concern us because it's the only factor from which we can not detach ourselves, for the simple fact that it's not self-inflected.
Yes it's true that this sort of depressions, meltdowns, regression, or whatever you decide to call it, has happened before and many times. Where?
# Ionia - Riches without strength [700 BC]
# Sparta - Gold prohibition in a collapsing economy [600 BC]
# The Carthaginian national state lottery [450 BC]
# Byzantium - Early fiscal indiscipline [410 BC]
# Athens - Housing the Gods (on borrowed money) [500 - 300 BC]
# Rome - Monetary expansion & republican militarism [200 BC]
# Chinese credit derivatives after Genghis Khan [1200 AD]
# Highly valued wooden sticks in England [1670 AD]
# John Law - The Royal Bank of France [1716 AD]
# Why Sweden’s central banker was beheaded [1719 AD]
# The US Continental Currency [1776 AD]
# The US greenback [1870 AD]
# The Weimar inflation in Germany [1923 AD]
But why would someone want to control all the money? You know the answer. CONTROL. Ok but if I stay free from attachment to physical property, then I'm good to go. Well not really because the control of the material goods isn't what matters, but the control of human lives. How?
Just to mention a Few!
Control of Phone Calls: Just watch any regular News Channel.
Control of the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFhbSolKWP0
Control of our digital info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aBM2mkYtPo
Control of property with the use of force and Control of human life with RFID Chips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lfEm66Bp_U
Control of our brain and bodies using FOOD: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634
Said as simple as it can be said by the comedian George Carlin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0
My belief is that this videos aren't out there to scare us, but to make us aware these issues trusting that some of us will take action if our hearts tell us to. Now you are the decider ;-)
For those who would like to take action, here is a head start:
Call the congress switch board at: (202) 224-3121
OR
Find your congress person’s contact info here: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
Peace!
Yes it's true that this sort of depressions, meltdowns, regression, or whatever you decide to call it, has happened before and many times. Where?
# Ionia - Riches without strength [700 BC]
# Sparta - Gold prohibition in a collapsing economy [600 BC]
# The Carthaginian national state lottery [450 BC]
# Byzantium - Early fiscal indiscipline [410 BC]
# Athens - Housing the Gods (on borrowed money) [500 - 300 BC]
# Rome - Monetary expansion & republican militarism [200 BC]
# Chinese credit derivatives after Genghis Khan [1200 AD]
# Highly valued wooden sticks in England [1670 AD]
# John Law - The Royal Bank of France [1716 AD]
# Why Sweden’s central banker was beheaded [1719 AD]
# The US Continental Currency [1776 AD]
# The US greenback [1870 AD]
# The Weimar inflation in Germany [1923 AD]
But why would someone want to control all the money? You know the answer. CONTROL. Ok but if I stay free from attachment to physical property, then I'm good to go. Well not really because the control of the material goods isn't what matters, but the control of human lives. How?
Just to mention a Few!
Control of Phone Calls: Just watch any regular News Channel.
Control of the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFhbSolKWP0
Control of our digital info: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aBM2mkYtPo
Control of property with the use of force and Control of human life with RFID Chips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lfEm66Bp_U
Control of our brain and bodies using FOOD: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634
Said as simple as it can be said by the comedian George Carlin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KReZyAZLI0
My belief is that this videos aren't out there to scare us, but to make us aware these issues trusting that some of us will take action if our hearts tell us to. Now you are the decider ;-)
For those who would like to take action, here is a head start:
Call the congress switch board at: (202) 224-3121
OR
Find your congress person’s contact info here: http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
Peace!
QUOTE(Oolong Rabbit @ Oct 10 2008, 11:06 AM)
That's the spirit. Call the other kids names, pack up your ball and head home. Why are you so affraid of different ideas and opinions?
I agree with him. It's not that I'm scared of different ideas and opinions, it's that this isnt a conspiracy theory forum. I'm not so bothered that I'm leaving the forum but I share the aggrevation. I also understand 'If you dont like it dont look at it' but come on. It's always been the same from the beginning of modern society, "THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING"!!! Is vacuum sealed food and canned goods and a couple of vitamin packs really going to save you from nuclear fallout or what if youre in the direct blast? Are your 'Superhuman' chi powers going to save you? I can answer that just as easily as you. The global economy is what people are focusing on now which is great, take a tad heat off us in the US but in terms of a bad economy??? Come on, people complain about not working when the national unemployment rate is lower than it has been in years, IN YEARS! So, with that said, we are all up the creek without a paddle. We can all get scared about this and about that but christ. What are you going to do personally if the army does kick down your door? I guarantee youre not going to summon the powers from your magical dantiens and start kicking their ass because even if you take out one, you cant dodge the bullets from the one behind him or probably to your side by now. It just reminds me of the whole dbz thing. Lets practice shooting balls from our hands while our ultra cool and stylish hair bleaches instantaneously and I get this kick ass magic aura too!!
QUOTE(MASTERforge @ Oct 10 2008, 05:20 PM)
The establishment e.g. rulers and the rich would never allow society to disintegrate to the level where they are equal among men. They have to and will protect their interests.
Jared Diamond (in Guns Germs and Steel) showed quite clearly how the level of hierarcy in a society depend on the surplus of food/energy that can be produced. Not the other way 'round. Now the leaders of this society might not like this to happen. Might prefer to avoid it, but they cannot change this universal law.
Conspiracy or not conspiracy.
What can happen is that they remain so attached to the little power they have that they damage the ecosystem to the point that they loose much more than if they just have stepped down a bit in the ladder.
And personally I don't see this conspiracy problem. People with similar interest, at similar job if they are high enough in the piramid of power WILL know each other. It is unavoidable. Just do the math!
And of course when they have problems they phone with each other. WHo should they speak to? The plumber who does not even know what GDP is? Com'on. (No offence for plumbers, plumbers too will not consult politicians on how to fix a house, is just that there are more plumbers than secretary of states).
And as part of this discussion they do help each other. It is not strange, we all like to help people that we know over other people. Maybe this is why this system cannot work, but is unavoidable. And it can only be so because this society produces so much over abundance that the people who are dying of hunger are not enough to make a revolution.
QUOTE(Oolong Rabbit @ Oct 10 2008, 02:32 AM)
Rice, cans of beans etc... Stuff that is cheap, high in nutrition, easily storable and has a long shelf life. For water, the berkey water filters. You may never use this stuff but at least you'll sleep a little better. Also Matt Wight had a great suggestion a while back on multivitamins. You can also google disaster preparedness kits as far flashlights and other tools.
Namo Amitabha!
condensed milk,
dried mushrooms, fruits and vegetables
p.s. i have a shakelight, nice inventions, better than batteries and things
p.s.2. http://eco-cool.blogspot.com/ - it's things like these that will make environmental and political disasters obsolete
QUOTE(froggie @ Oct 9 2008, 06:16 PM)
So, what would be good foods to stock?
Canned goods with a high nutritional value and a shelf life of many years to come, sterilised milk with a very long shelf life, what else?
And how would you supply yourself with water for months or years?
Basic staples we used to call 'em, and 'tis best you rely less on canned goods than on dry goods, Canned meats being the prime exception. Remember that this is not a gourmet experience.
Purchase in small quantities at a time by dedicating $10-$15 per grocery shopping event as this will go somewhat un-noticed by most.
The large bulk quantity packaging may be more efficient for the dollar, but it is best to buy in smaller amounts. Primarily this smaller packaging is to prevent long-term spoilage during use as these smaller packages can also be used in the household as a normal part of the "grocery" list, thus helping to rotate the stock. Mis-handling losses would also be reduced.
Spices. A word here on these "luxury" items. Rome once paid a ransom to the Barbarians that consisted of large portion of spices. In a barter society these will be worth quite a bit. Purchase spices at an Indian or Pakistani or Asian type market to get the best prices for spices in quantities; this also applies to teas. Shun the supermarket and their high priced glassed-bottled stuff.
Salt & sugar in 1 and 5 lb bags respectively Purchase Iodized salt,for we are speaking of emergencies, right? Coffee and tea, the former in the freeze dried bricks (eliminates the can), and the latter loose.
I consider that a good green tea and an Assam tea as being minimal. Instant hot chocolate in foil packets.
Flour & corn meal in 5 lb bags, corn starch, baking soda and baking powder,
Rice, and white navy beans and small red beans and/or pinto beans for variety, mung beans if you are a monk <grin>. Get the 2 pound packaging.
Oatmeal and "Farina" type hot breakfast cereals in individual or meal-sized packets; spoilage remember? Avoid the crunchy flake, processed, cereals, too much bulk.
Instant potatoes same as above as with milk powder. A few small plastic jars of peanut butter have worth as well. Don't forget the Dried Fruits! there is quite a variety available. a they are a must have.
Dried vegetables, like the dehydrated type for stews, and dried soup mixes.
Black pepper and cayenne pepper as a bare minimum for spices.
Olive oil in plastic bottles, 8-12 Fluid Ounce size. This will be the mainstay frying oil other than small tins of lard or "Crisco," or possibly Ghee. Olive oil has other uses as well.
Well my eyes are getting a bit tired but I hope that one can see the general line of reasoning here. Oh, if you do not know how to cook, now is a good time to learn.
^ Some good tips, but I might add that you might as well pick some healthier foods while you're at it. Watch Daniel Vitalis & David Wolfe Youtube vids on "esoteric alchemical" super nutrition for this. These guys started out as raw foodists, but have evolved from that over the last decade or 2. So, they have several great cutting-edge series there which are INCREDIBLY fascinating & informative!
Now you don't have to go to extremes with superfoods, but at least omit the baddies...
Like I would cut excess sugar out of your diet, which only feeds anaerobic pathogens. Flour is not too great, either. Point being, as global warming and population increases, so will diseases. So, you want to reduce risk factors as much as possible to keep your body defenses up and stay healthy.
Now you don't have to go to extremes with superfoods, but at least omit the baddies...
Like I would cut excess sugar out of your diet, which only feeds anaerobic pathogens. Flour is not too great, either. Point being, as global warming and population increases, so will diseases. So, you want to reduce risk factors as much as possible to keep your body defenses up and stay healthy.
Just for the record I'm not just stock piling food for hard times, I am about to leave on a 5yr retreat and need it for that also. I plan on growing my own food, herbs etc, canning drying, and scavenging from the wilderness.
I really don't mean to come off as a conspiracy nut, but most of the videos I posted were either our senators talking on cspan or backed up by the army times website. It honestly seems as though we will see martial law in a few years based on what we are now hearing from our elected officials. I just want to be prepared and survive, there is something I want to accomplish in this life, and I don't want to die until I have...
I really don't mean to come off as a conspiracy nut, but most of the videos I posted were either our senators talking on cspan or backed up by the army times website. It honestly seems as though we will see martial law in a few years based on what we are now hearing from our elected officials. I just want to be prepared and survive, there is something I want to accomplish in this life, and I don't want to die until I have...
QUOTE(Jakara @ Oct 10 2008, 03:39 AM)
The USA has strong resources and will never collapse like other countries have.
pah! that's funny. every country collapses, the question is just when. mind you, I don't believe now is the time, but the whole world economy was formerly based on the idea that for any reasonable length of time it could be assumed that the US government would remain solvent. that is no longer the case, and the economy is restructuring itself.
The best technique for survival is knowledge. Become aware of local plant life that is edible and how to make snares and traps, what insects are ok to eat and which are tastier. How to start fire, when to start fire and how to cover your tracks. Self defense is nice to know aswell as how to shoot a firearm or learning the bow and arrow or sling for that matter. The US has many a strange happenings. The REAL ID for starters is odd and how about the duracell commercial with the kidfinder on it. You can check out the verichip too, talk about a frightening website. They are serious too. Although, it doesnt help to dwell on the negatives. Remember, there's always a way.
Don't forget a good vacuum sealer, like Food Saver. It'll prolong the life of food by 2 to 3 times.
It seems to be a matter of perspective-
I've been left for dead bythe KKK and had a hit put on me by the high lords of latin kings... those times had me worried too...and yet- Obviously-I'm still here!-
Dirt poor and tranquil in the deluge of potential threats that is life...
Less than a year ago I kept a friend from commiting suicide, he is happy these days - My life is a roller-coaster & I prefer it to a merry-go-round of typical existance...
I still can relax and breath
I think it's enough!-
love to all- Pat
QUOTE(Wayfarer64 @ Oct 14 2008, 08:19 AM)
It seems to be a matter of perspective-
I've been left for dead bythe KKK and had a hit put on me by the high lords of latin kings... those times had me worried too...and yet- Obviously-I'm still here!-
Dirt poor and tranquil in the deluge of potential threats that is life...
Less than a year ago I kept a friend from commiting suicide, he is happy these days - My life is a roller-coaster & I prefer it to a merry-go-round of typical existance...
I still can relax and breath
I think it's enough!-
love to all- Pat
So IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR YYOOUU THIS WHOLE TIME ARGH DEATH TO WAYFARER!!!!
jk. Sounds like youve had quite the life. Good outlook with all evil youve come through
I stumbled onto this redneck, who knows his stuff about food storage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7_cTn6YpE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7_cTn6YpE
QUOTE(hyok @ Oct 13 2008, 09:55 PM)
Don't forget a good vacuum sealer, like Food Saver. It'll prolong the life of food by 2 to 3 times.
Apparently a fridge ionizer prolongs with 2x or more also. (though not a good idea to use when storing live cultures in the fridge also, such as yoghurt, kefir, kombucha, tempeh, buttermilk, etc. because it will kill all kinds of bacteria, good or bad
but ofcourse all of those probiotics and cultures could be stored outside of the fridge also or in a seperate fridge or alternative thereof (for example one that uses no electricity like the evaporation fridge, and also alternatively there is a DIY fridge which operates on less than 5 cents of electricity per day. will attempt to find the link and add it.)DIY Fridge / super efficient fridge
there:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=us&q=D...oeken&meta=
http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html
http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.pdf
other:
http://www.off-grid.net/2007/06/26/fuel-free-refrigeration/
http://www.thedailygreen.com/green-homes/b...igerator-460215
http://www.google.com/search?hl=us&q=D...oeken&meta=
QUOTE(h.uriahr @ Oct 14 2008, 11:37 AM)
So IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR YYOOUU THIS WHOLE TIME ARGH DEATH TO WAYFARER!!!!
jk. Sounds like youve had quite the life. Good outlook with all evil youve come throughI figure in a past life I was one heavy sonofabitch to someone...
this time around I forgive and try to forget, it just may be that my karma will get leveled and I'll come back as a mud-sliding happy otter next time 'round... 
in any case if I ever get my lap top to work I hope to write a memoir of this crazy trip-My book of poetry hasn't sold well so far so a book that has sex, drugs, rocknroll and even some spiritualism may keep me afloat for the years to come...
in any case there is nothing that I fear but my own foolishness.
which does cause some worry...love to all- Pat
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