I'm undecided on who to learn from for a tried and tested system of Nei Gung. I have looked into Gary Clyman's Mind Light Nei Gung and Spring Forest Qigung (not Nei Gung, but his most advance course says is for self Enlightenment it says on his page). Any suggestions?

I think Gary is a good guy. He cuts through the rough by teaching tai chi as a chi gung right away. For a rounder gentleman his stances are nice. Very high energy individual. Call him up and talk to him!

He's not good enough to be as much of a dick as he is.

Wow...its expensive ...

By the way, I'm not saying he isnt good, what I'm saying is, he's not so good that he can charge that much money and be that much of dick. SFQ is really phenomenal. What exactly are you trying to achieve when you imagine training in neigong?

yes,I have tried it.He teaches condensing breathing which really generates extremely much energy if you get the hang of it.His whole system depends on the condensing breathing,but if you dont master it the rest is about worthless.some friends of mine tried it and did not manage to learn it.I was very good at it,but suddenly i could not do it anymoore.dont know why,very frustrating .kept trying for years to get it back,because the energy was so strong.I belive if anyone master the condensing breathing it want take long time to open channels and learn empty force.so you are taking a chance,if you can learn condensing breathing clymans system is worth the price.I am not sure but I think the white skeleton meditation will give you about the same energy level.and that is cheap to get.Spring forest is the safest choice IMO

Here's (link) a previous thread about 'm.

by good i mean i would like touch hands w him. the confidence/cockiness angle doesn't mean anything. Its his embodiment. Half of everyones words are meaningless jargonl.

Looking at his body, I'd agree that he has some development. His personality was just so outrageous that I literally couldn't stand to watch his video. So, in my case, the latter element was just too much: "your reaction may vary".

Clyman says it himself, his system begins and ends with the lower Dantian. If you're looking for health and power, then I think it's good, it is neigong (unlike many systems which call themselves neigong but actually aren't). However, neigong was developed for enlightenment and higher understanding of the universe, Clyman clearly doesn't use his neigong for these purposes. A complete neigong system doesn't begin and end with the lower Dantian, it only begins there.

Firstand foremost, thanks for your reply!

Basically I want a system that gives me the ability to slow down aging and stay strong physically, the ability to use energy to heal and defend myself like DJ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml0j2ZkQ7WQ, and lastly will take me to enlightenment (whatever that is). That's my dream and what I call a Complete System!

You'll get alot of opinions about Sifu Chang. Any basic qigong system should do all of what you want. The video you posted is a system of neigong called the Mo Pai System and some will tell you it's closed, some will tell you it's sort of open and some dont believe he's real.

Yeah, I went ahead and read some more on the Mo Pai System and it's to controversial as you stated. On the search I found a similar one called Longmen Pai and another called Zheng Zong Da Dao. Any comments on those or any suggestions from your part? THANKS

Longmen Pai isnt at all like Mo Pai Neigong. You must have some money saved up lol. Zheng Zong Da Dao...I'm sure you've been to a carlot before and I'm sure you've met those salesmen that everyone hates because they wont leave you alone and they pressure you and when you buy the car you get home and you feel used and broke. You will get varying opinions about David Verdesi. When you buy a 200k dollar car and you get beat by an 80k Z06 Corvette you suddenly come up with all kinds of reasons as to why your car, even though you lost, is still better than that Corvette. When you spend all that money, you get defensive and no matter what anyone says, it was worth it when deep down you know you got hosed. John Chang is very real. The Mo Pai is a very simple system and it works. There are of course, other methods of that neigong system, aka thunderpath, and some work way better. With that said, what it comes down to is how you specifically want to train. Neigong and qigong, in the end, can produce similar results but neigong, hands down will produce way more power because of the isolation of the dantien. There will be alot of people hating on me in here because I'm such a dick but I do know neigong, and I know it well.

Well atleast youre not in denial abou things lol


I think what the problem is, is that you have people who dont believe in those powers, people who do believe in those powers, and then people who believe in those powers and think they know how to achieve those powers when they really dont. It's basically about committment. There was a saying, all roads lead to Rome. They still do. You can pick silk reeling qigong, which I hear is fantastic, and develop power, but it takes dedication. The only thing that I'd spend 7500 on is a passport, a ticket, and a guide. David doesnt seem credible but then again who does? The only problem I hear about really is that he knows ALL these masters but what's the point? An MMA fighter cant master one certain art if all he does is train in everything imaginable. He may or may not actually know these masters but for 7500 it's an expensive gamble.

I highly doubt you know Mo Pai.

Doubt as highly as you wish. Matter of fact, let's just all doubt together You can sit there and doubt all day long about the fact that I often times meditate for 5-8 hours a day but hey, who am I? I am. Simple as that. There really is no satisfactory way to prove or disprove that I do or do not know Mo Pai Neigong.

Hi there, there were two kinds of people that marketed about neigong on this forum, and I hope you're neither. Not because I like you - you seem to fit your description of a dick - but because they were too many.
The first ones bragged and said nothing, the second ones bragged even more and revealed too little to nothing.

I wonder what you mean by the "insolation of the dantien" thing.

That being said, dick doesn't mean not cool

L1

The lower dantien is a huge power center waiting for you to cultivate and feed it. Neigong isolates the lower dantien in that you train specifically with the lower dantien. You train for quite some time with just the lower dantien. I cant stress enough that the lower dantien if used correctly can open yourself up to so many things. Now for those that will argue against this, I'm not saying this is the only way to train. Neigong however, uses the lower dantien. It can harvest such a remarkable amount of power.

Gary is a good guy and his system does work, especially for Martial application. After condensing you learn to accelerate the energy or increase the vibration. I have met him and tested his skill, he has some nice striking power.

Personally I would not choose it for enlightenment.... even if you train with his teacher Master Liao when you reach a certain stage he will point you to someone else..... (a monk in TW).

There is some good stuff in there though......

Have you used his mind light neigong? If you have I think the question is do you personally think that it's worth 7500?

I just know 7500 is alot to spit out. I'm not sure if his mind light is worth a crap or not but it seems that noone has actually used that particular product of his. If all he can do is deliver powerful strikes I wouldnt suggest buying the system. Real neigong, as with anything else will help lay the path for enlightenment. It might not be overnight but as you progress certain things will become more clear to you. Neigong is a science, not a religion but you cant really feel the things you will feel without gaining more understanding you know?

hey thanx, that was nice

This is my experience and opinion so you may take it as it is.

I remember "Mind Light" being advertised many years ago when I bought his "Tidal Wave Chi Kung"

It was not good (Tidal Wave), he was just standing there doing a lot of forced breathing like a HEPA air filter with egotistical visualizations as if his over-bearing personality will force you by the compulsion of the lord to believe in and complete the microcosmic circulation at gary's cue in order to be saved, and it was for 700+ $ and he did not want to refund me. I emailed him politely and he replied with profanities. I was too passive for this and was more interested in finding better instructions, so I took this loss as experience.

I tried the breathing of course and it was too lung-intensive and I got pneumonia afterwords. I bought his stuff because it was the first time I was exposed to the concept of "Chi Kung" and I was desperate for resources, I read his entire site (70+ pages) before buying and there was a picture of him posing with what looked like Chuck Norris.

It is very unfortunate that this bad example has hijacked the internet domain http://chikung.com/ thus more and more people will be exposed to him and lose a lot of money.

And I didn't know about the price of "mind light" then because he hid it, and now you say it's 7500$ for some books and videos ?!

He can exaggerate the prices as much as he likes, and given his kind of personality, the prices can reach the heights of 7500$ for some books and videos.

You are probably better off spending that kind of money going to David Verdesi and I sincerely hope that you leave Gary Clyman alone and never buy anything from him.

Better yet, check out the experienced users of this forum who are probably better off and more developed than this guy.

What he teaches is not especially exclusive to him. There are many other teachers who teach similar practices. Please research other options instead of paying that kind of money. If you have no problems with spending that kind of money then you are still better off researching other sources to experience for your self the difference.

Thanks Desert Eagle,

While it's not good to defame someone's teachings, I think it's also good to point out where someone's teachings may be useless and a waste of money. I guess the difference is in how you do it, and you did it politely and honestly.

Isnt this Gary Clymans Neikung on Youtube ?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=KfyAHoQAu1o

I could not stop Laughing, Listen for the Big Roar at 1:28 rofl

Thank you, you have all been supportive which makes me like this site even more.

I remember some other things that I read on his website (or his Tidal book) some years back:

1- he said that he learned tai chi from his korean master for many years before his master decided to teach him chi kung almost as an after thought.

2- he said something to the effect that he flinged and somersaulted his students around the dojo using only his energy (just like in the movie Scanners).

3- him posing with what looks like Chuck Norris was posted on his front page.

Watched that youtube...wow that's a very forceful type of breathing. Probably makes an aggressive person feel more calm...temporarily.

I just glanced at his site. Lots of hype and salesman ship. I think I read "best chikung on the planet". I cannot judge his ability, but the site raise a BIG red flag and the video seems weird. I wouldn't enjoy such a practice.

I don't know when he started to use the term neigong, but in general it seems that many people have started to use that now for better marketability. I'm sure it won't be long until we see the term "yin yang gong" get advertised as well.

His video...should speak to you...It's completely up to you as to whether or not you spend the money on it but I think you probably have the sense not to. Dont spend the money on David either.

His Mind Light DVD is available out the door for the low low price of 3000 bucks. His private 3 day lesson is 7500.

I agree that David Verdesi's foundation training is expensive as hell, but I have seen some of it and it's some of the best in the world.

ROFL!
says who?

labelling teachers from a distance is the best way in the world to be wrong about them
says me!

L1

Says me.

I saw a video of a technique from the foundation training. I practice it and it's great.

Why are people so attracted to egotistical blowhards selling promises of power for vast sums of money? Sifu Lin Aiwei from this forum is also in New York. He won't sell or promise you anything, but he will put you on the right path. Maybe Lin should start advertising his teachings for a thousand bucks an hour and promise enlightenment in 4 years if you practice 8 hrs a day. Then half of this forum would be chomping at the bit to train with him. Seriously, if you want a real teacher that is compassionate and not operating on his ego, look him up.

Keep mindful of the old master's wisdom: Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know.

Good luck in your search brother!

I needed a good laugh today, thanx

To people that ask:

I won't share it out of respect. I got it from someone who I know in person, because I was having problems that my current practice wasn't getting. I wasn't properly taught, and therefore also can't properly teach. I don't want that person in trouble. All I know is that it's a great practice.

One of the best for what it does. Of course there is other stuff out there that's much cheaper.

The cheapest (free) is just cat stretching. You can do it yourself, self guided. Results will be quite similar.

You're welcome for the laughs. I tend to agree that spending so much money on the course makes little sense...so I'm not endorsing it. Just saying, I enjoy one of the practices.

The problem with David is that he tries to find all of these "masters" and learn every path available when that gets you nowhere. The system is incomplete.

I just Watched the Gary Clyman Video Again. I think He made the entire thing up Himself.

I know nothing about the completeness of foundation training and whatever is beyond the foundation stuff. To me it seems like if you do what I know and also real stillness meditation you can go freakin far.

That was just what I was thinking, he is following his own inclinations and making stuff up along the way which is good for show.

Sorry man, there's nothing special about having some of his materials. I have a good share of them, including what you say it is "the best system in the world".
But since we came into argument, I will drop my two coins here with all the rest: it doesn't matter what you practice. Also it doesn't matter what you want. It also doesn't matter what you think it's good or not.

Things are much more complex, and people still want to live in books and novels - especially because there are marketers that use myths when they make a teaching available.
I'm not trying to change your mind, nor do I want to "save" anyone - that's Li Jiong's side of the pie - because in the end it all comes to "like attracts like". I said it before. And it comes in a package with:
- stubborness
- doubt and self-doubt
- egocentric mindset
- cunning
Do what you please, but for the love of God, keep an eye out for these above. You WILL see a pattern.

In good honesty

L1

Oh so that's where the confusion lies...I said: "ONE of the best."

No, it's not a confusion, but for the heck of it, I'll try to finish what I've started out of stupidity.


Best of how many?
How many were you envolved with?
For real?

I don't want any answers this time.


Good luck with it,

L1

I hate to break it to you but there is only ONE SYSTEM that can SAVE the WORLD and FREE MANKIND from oppression. Have you seen the widely popular documentary titled "Kung Fu Hustle"? It has a specific kind of Buddhist Palm and that my friend is THE SYSTEM!!!!

I have the manual if you'd like to buy it???

HR

Yes!

Ok...

It takes years of practice but you too can have unimaginable power like myself. For a practice like this youd basically sell your soul right? Good. Now, just send 5grand to my pay pal account and I will send you the first manual.